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Old 11-09-2011, 06:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Engine Surging Troubleshooting

Hey guys, after reading the long thread on the engine surging issue, I just thought I'd post my experience with the surging issue and the things we tried to do to fix the issue.

First off, has anyone fully resolved the surging issue? I have come to find out, a PCV with custom map still has not completely eliminated the surging symptoms see my post below.

My surging experience:
Bike setup Ė 2009 ZX6R with 3200 miles, all track miles with the exception of the first 600 for break in.
Akrapovic Full race exhaust
PCV with Attack custom map
Attack modified Velocity stacks
Power commander Quick shifter expansion module with sensor
BMC race filter
These are just the mods that could potentially affect the surging issue.
I have had my bike now for two years and have mainly used it as a track bike. I installed the Akrapovic full exhaust and PCV from day one, and was using a custom map provided by Cody. On the track I have never experienced any surging, stalling, power cutting in and out until just recently. First time it happened, on the race track going into one of the slower corners at Streets of Willow. I was off the gas, tapped the brakes, and dipped the bike into the corner, as soon as I got back on the gas, the bike surged like one of the spark plug didnít fire, which threw my body (due to momentum) forward upsetting the bike at lean, almost causing me to crash, luckily I was able to stand the bike up, as I pulled in the clutch and got off the racetrack. I didnít really notice it again the rest of the track day, but I made note of this since I was bringing my bike to Attack performance to have a custom map made.
So the Attack guys noticed the same thing when they ran my bike on the Dyno. The interesting fact is they didnít notice it at a specific RPM, but at a specific throttle position. On the dyno, they noticed a surge at 10% and 20 % throttle regardless of what gear the bike was in.
Things that were checked:
ECU Ė they swapped out my ECU with another stock 09 ZX6R ECU, no change same surge indications
PCV - Checked all Power Commander connections to the lower injectors, and the upper injectors going to the quick-shift expansion module, all connections good
Spark Plugs Ė Pulled all plug to ensure no plugs were fouled, plugs were fine, but replaced them with new plugs just to make sure, no change, same surge indications.
Fuel Ė Though I might have possible had a bad tank of gas, they removed my gas tank and attack another gas tank on with fuel, no change same surge indications.
Air Filter Ė Removed airbox to check if there was any oil in the airbox or anything that could prevent proper airflow, no issues there.
They went ahead and finished the custom map which they were able to get 125 Whp (Iíll post pics of the dyno sheet later when I post pics of the bike) They were able to smooth out the areas where the bike was surging, itís not completely gone, but not nearly as pronounced as before.

Possible areas we did not check:
Ignition coils Ė we did not swap out the coils due to time, and if it was one of the coils I would assume that the surging would be consistent though out the whole rev range.
Electrical wiring on the bike Ė Did not go through all the wiring to see if something got pinched or knicked where bare wire is showing.
If I were to guess, I think in my case, the surging has to do with the electrical ignition system or the way the exhaust collector is designed (scavenging) not the PCV air/fuel mixture. As stated earlier, I have always had the PCV and full exhaust from day one, and the surging issue just started recently, causing me to believe something electronically is failing or is degrading.
Hopefully we can find out a cause and solution to this problem. I have my last track day of the season this weekend that is more than likely going to get rained out so I donít know how much riding I can get in.

Anyone else find a solution to this problem?
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Did you try a firmware update to the PCV? That would be my first recommendation. We released a new firmware version about a month ago. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have updated to the latest firmware for the PCV, had no effect on the surging issue

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Originally Posted by DynojetResearch View Post
Did you try a firmware update to the PCV? That would be my first recommendation. We released a new firmware version about a month ago. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Savior six,
I am having a same type of issue with my 600 2007 gixxer.
Bike has full Arrow exhaust, BMC air filter, Since I bought bike. I know its not a kawi. But my problem did not occur till a custom map was built, which is when power commander was installed.
Bike was real smooth prior, just less power, had 103 before work
I also only ride this bike on the track, so I know how messed up it is when trying to roll on a bit at full lean. Then suspension gets all funky etc.

After power commander, and map 108.80 hp 1st tune
My map was just done 4 weeks ago. IT started my next track day.
I had a flat spot at 8-10 K at roll on or smacking it open.
And every time I had gas off it jerks at roll on, no matter how smooth I try to open throttle. It jerks suspension some.

I called the shop the guy was real cool, about the issues.
He took bike next day and he put on dyno all air fuel etc seemed good.
He called Dyno Jet, spoke to a road race tunner. ( the shop I went was highly recommend to me, but does alot more drag bikes than road race bikes)

Dyno jet guy recommended he use some diffrent parameters to build a new map, well see if he can adjust ares of my problem.
The shop decided in stead of trying to piece it together, He started from scratch and did a whole new map. That was last Friday.
O and new hp number was 115 hp not bad for an 07 600.
The shop was real good about all this, did not charge me a dime, and he was real sorry I had to bring it back.
Hell it could be some sensor at this point.

I rode on the street Sunday did some clovers, just slaped my plate on it.
yea no blinker or lights but I had to try it.
I am leaving Friday for Carlina motor sport park for the weekend.
between 8-10 flat spot seemed gone.
Still has a problem at throttle turn on.
It feels as If I have a light switch instead of a dimmer switch for a throttle, for the first 20% only.

I plan on riding a session or 2, then pulling my custom map out, (saving it of course first, Then installing the map from Dyno jet, website for stock 600, with, arrow full pipe.
Just to see if issue is still there.
Then it will help me know whats up.

I will post up my results Saturday during lunch or at night.

I should mention I have a problem with my gixxer 750 also street ride though. But it happens at 4-5 k rpm at roll on only from zero throttle.
So I am almost convinced it power commander issue, or with the tune.
This bike also has custom map but by someone else.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i dont know for sure because i do not own one, but the issue with the 09+ kawi's seems to be more present before a pc, alot have added a pc and the problem has since ceased, not all though
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Bumping this. I had some surging/stuttering accelerating at my last race weekend. I had the bike dyno tuned yesterday and they noticed it as well. It is intermittent so I am thinking it is an electrical short somewhere. Did anyone figure out the problem?

My bike has PCV, full M4, Annitori Quick shifter and much more, but that is the majority of the electrical things. I am going to pull the tank tonight and check all the wires and see if anything has been rubbed enough to bare a wire. Hopefully someone else can chime in so I don't search the entire bike.
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Oh and it is not the kickstand switch. I double checked that last night. Could it be the clean air mod? I jumped the connector after I installed the block off plates.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This is the Rectifier issue and the reason why there was a recall on them. Check to see if this resolves your problem as it seems to have been the issue for all I know who had this problem
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hype R View Post
This is the Rectifier issue and the reason why there was a recall on them. Check to see if this resolves your problem as it seems to have been the issue for all I know who had this problem
It is weird that the R/R is causing the bike to surge/stutter when getting on the gas. Battery charges fine. It is crazy how intermittent it is. I would be coming out of a corner around maybe 8-10k rpms and the bike would hesitate on the acceleration at a certain RPM it seems and then be fine for a race or a few laps then do it again. Bike had no power then full power.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Again as I mentioned what your explaining sounds just like your Rectifier issue. Thats what happens when you have a Rectifier problem.

You can check if there was a recall on your bike and if so get it replaced for free or you can just buy another one. I would recommend mounting it to under the Rear Tail so that it gets more air and wont heat up as much.

See if that helps your problem.
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