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Old 12-05-2012, 01:08 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I was having a conversation with a friend today about bikes in general and how we both hate mopeds.

I see an awful lot of people on mopeds who get on and off them every day and never give a second thought to the machine that is lurking under all that highly polished plastic.

I see so many young kids jumping on their supped up Honda PCX's or Yamaha XMax's and go whizzing around town in groups of 3-5. They do 60-70 clicks in a 30 zone, over take on bends and blind spots, the undertake cars, buses and other large vehicles with huge blind spots like articulated lorries and every year we have a minimum of 3 fatalities involving 17 year old kids who were bought these bikes for their 17th birthday, slapped on an L plate and off they go!

They have no formal training or instruction on how to operate a motorcycle or maintain their bike. This mentallity stays with most until the end of their lives. They hop on their bike in the morning to go to work and hop back on again when they finish. They swing by Morrisons at the end of the day to pick up some bread and milk before picking the kids up from school and taking them to football practice. They put their 10 years olds on the back wearing nothing more than shorts, a tracksuit top and a skull cap helmet.

For the size of the place its amazing how many backstreet garages there are who over over booked for months because every one takes their moped in every time it needs spark plugs and oil changed and most have the attitude of... "whats that? I need to put air in my tires? But I havent got a thingy to put air in... i'll just leave the bike and use the car until i can take it to the garage."

Ok so bit of a long rant, how is it relevant to the thread? Two wheels is two wheels, regardless of whether the transmission is automatic or manual, whether the cubic capacity is 49, 125, or 599.

If you get on your bike and treat it like a muel, that muel will throw you off its back eventually, only it will do so at an average of 50 KM/H around a town like mine and if that doesn't do enough damage there is always another moron going even faster, talking on his mobile phone (yes they do it on bikes too) who is more than willing to finish the job!

Respecting your bike isn't just about holding back on the throttle, its about having at the very least a basic understanding of how your bike works and knowing how to operate it safely giving due consideration to your surroundings including but not limited to other road users.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:28 AM   #82 (permalink)
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The motorcycle safety classes say to respect the bikes. Honestly it's just knowing how to ride, how much you can handle, and don't start off with the biggest bike you can afford.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:37 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kabobble View Post
The motorcycle safety classes say to respect the bikes. Honestly it's just knowing how to ride, how much you can handle, and don't start off with the biggest bike you can afford.
The problem is people think they can handle more than they actually can. Which is why you always see noobs saying that want and can handle a 1000cc sport bike. They think with all that power, they will take it light and easy...
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:59 PM   #84 (permalink)
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I'm "newer" to owning a bike on my own but I have grown up since I was 3 around dirt bikes and motorcycles and they have become a way of life for me and the saddest thing I see nowadays is when someone around my age (18) is more caustious and safe than the 40 and 50 year olds, shouldn't they be setting the example? As said earlier respect is a great thing to have and you could be the next Valentino Rossi but if everyone around you is being idiots then there's nothing that can be done other than just leaving that group and watch them kill each other on their bikes.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:34 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chris140 View Post
I was having a conversation with a friend today about bikes in general and how we both hate mopeds.

I see so many young kids jumping on their supped up Honda PCX's or Yamaha XMax's and go whizzing around town in groups of 3-5. They do 60-70 clicks in a 30 zone, over take on bends and blind spots, the undertake cars, buses and other large vehicles with huge blind spots like articulated lorries and every year we have a minimum of 3 fatalities involving 17 year old kids who were bought these bikes for their 17th birthday, slapped on an L plate and off they go!
That's why we have tiered licencing - they'd do exactly the same on bigger faster bikes. They have to learn about blind spots, riding defensively, and the risks of being stupid.

In the UK it's 16 year olds, not 17 year olds, so where are you with L plates and a 17 limit? (Answer my own question - Gibralter. Do you actually have 30 kph zones?) We also have an admittedly basic Compulsory Basic Training Course, which must be completed before any two wheeled road user is allowed on the road.

We have very few fatalities nationally amongs this group, btw.

Don't respect your bike too much. It's a tool, meant to be used. Respect it too much and you'll never master it or use it to its full potential. The trick is to learn to ride on a bike that you can push without exceeding your own limits by too much. The ideal bike to learn on is a 125 with a top speed of about 70 mph. For the States, this is unacceptable, but new riders should at least stay with a 250 until they have the skills to push a faster bike at least a little bit.

Apart from being not the best thing to do, how you can expect someone to respect their bike when they don't respect anything else, including advice from experienced riders, legal restrictions on power, speed limits?

Rob

Last edited by williamr; 12-17-2012 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:37 AM   #86 (permalink)
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That's why we have tiered licencing - they'd do exactly the same on bigger faster bikes. They have to learn about blind spots, riding defensively, and the risks of being stupid.

In the UK it's 16 year olds, not 17 year olds, so where are you with L plates and a 17 limit? (Answer my own question - Gibralter. Do you actually have 30 kph zones?) We also have an admittedly basic Compulsory Basic Training Course, which must be completed before any two wheeled road user is allowed on the road.

We have very few fatalities nationally amongs this group, btw.

Don't respect your bike too much. It's a tool, meant to be used. Respect it too much and you'll never master it or use it to its full potential. The trick is to learn to ride on a bike that you can push without exceeding your own limits by too much. The ideal bike to learn on is a 125 with a top speed of about 70 mph. For the States, this is unacceptable, but new riders should at least stay with a 250 until they have the skills to push a faster bike at least a little bit.

Apart from being not the best thing to do, how you can expect someone to respect their bike when they don't respect anything else, including advice from experienced riders, legal restrictions on power, speed limits?
I loved that last bit Rob, very subtle

Yeah I live in Gibraltar GBZ not Gibraltar in the UK or in the States for those of you who didnt do a degree in Geography. The legal driving age for a 49 - 125 cc is 17 and getting hold of a license to go out on the street and ride without any prior experience or tuition is a simple case of paying a fiver and filling out a form.

As of January 2013, however that is changing to bring us in line with EU legislation so will be interesting to see how that goes.

As for respecting the bike, if you really want to push it then go to the track. Bearing in mind all my personal riding experience has been on the street then I can only comment on what is safe and legal.

Ive found that my ZZR600 has taught me things that after 13 years of riding I never new were possible so I'm not the fastest or most experienced rider out there. All I know is that Ive had enough falls to know how to ride safely and when I talk about respecting the bike I'm talking about being aware of the dangers around you and knowing your limits. I know my limits and I ride to them, occasionally I'll push a little when I've picked up a tip from a friend or the forums.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:16 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Respecting the bike means different things to different people. To me it means not thrashing it when there's no need to, and keeping it in good mechanical condition. If I look after it it'll look after me and not cost me too much in unscheduled service and repair. Being wary about letting it off the leash because of worries about your own ability to keep it under control isn't good though. That's part of why I believe that you should put in time on a bike that you can push to its limits regularly. Respecting traffic and its ability to do you serious harm is another matter entirely. So is respecting road surfaces and their ability to remove all the grip from your tyres at inopportune moments.

There's some flexibility in the new EU regulations. Minimum ages can be raised by certain countries as one example, so is Gib keeping 17 as the minimum age for a 'ped or is it reducing it to 16? For us it's 16 for a 'ped and 17 for a 125. Some countries allow 14 year olds to ride 25 kph peds without a licence. This isn't allowed in the UK, and the new AM licence doesn't actually cover this class of 'ped so the UK has an extra Q licence to cover them. You get it automatically with the AM licence. We also have a new Q licence for 'ped riders already licenced for 50 kph 'peds because the AM licence is for 45 kph bikes and to ride the older 50 kph ones you'd need an A1 or higher licence. If you're not confused now, you soon will be.

For the UK you fill in a form for a provisional licence, but before you can take to the road you must complete a CBT course. This isn't part of the EU regs, so again, is Gib introducing something like CBT or will new 'ped riders still be able to take to the road without any training?

But yeah - the kids don't seem to respect anything. 'Peds aren't to blame - just their riders. I've had a lot of fun on 'peds, but with an A licence you don't have to worry about power or speed restrictions.

Rob

Last edited by williamr; 12-18-2012 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:52 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Actually I had a blast reading the amendment to the Traffic Act 2005. There are some really amusing oversights that I have noticed just by reading the supplement to the gazette.

The legal riding age for a moped has now gone up from 17 to 18. To be honest that is not a change I welcome, because there are some really enthusiastic young people who ride very sensibly and I don't see that making them wait a year longer will do anything other than make them ride faster to make up for lost time!

This bit made me laugh;
Quote:
"Two-wheel vehicles or three-wheel vehicles with a
maximum design speed of not more than 45 km/h"
I remember my first moped which my mum and dad bought me, it was a Yamaha BWs that was about 6 years old when I got it and was falling apart from the inside out, even that I got up to 60km/h so by and large this particular section of the legislation is putting moped dealers out of business.

This reminds me of a recent change to the traffic act which basically said you dont need to wear a helmet if your riding anything less than a 50cc. Of course most of the time you see 50cc its actually a 49 cc and so of course this led in an increase in smart alec kids riding around with no helmets on.

The A1 category hasnt changed too much other than the increase in age.

Interestingly however the A2 license i.e. anything up to 35 kw has not changed and remains at 18.

The changes to A Class is interesting:

Quote:
The minimum age for category A
is 20 years. However, access to the driving of
motorcycles of this category shall be subject to a
minimum of two years’ experience on
motorcycles under an A2 licence. This
requirement as to previous experience shall be
waived if the candidate is at least 24 years old.
So either be 20 years old AND have a minimum of 2 years riding an A2 class motorcycle OR be 24 years old. Its very balanced and goes to show that there are two sides to the debate held on another thread on the forum.

The legislation makes no mention of a CBT but does talk about limited validity for novice riders i.e. same as now any one can ride on 'L' plates for a period of 3 months, at the end of such time they can pay another fiver to get it renewed.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:26 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:32 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Well the new licensing regs came into effect on Monday. Given that the old style provisional licenses had an expiry date of 3 months, I imagine it will take at least that long to see any effect.

However any person who was disqualified from driving prior to Monday should, under the new regs, have to re-take their test before the license is given back (as opposed to the old way... they served their time give the license back)

The fruit of which shall become apparent very soon.
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