New rider...looking into a 650r...is this a decent price? - Page 3 - KawiForums - Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums
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post #21 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 12:43 PM
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MSF in my opinion is a good start but it is worthless as a learning tool by itself , I have two co workers come out of the MSF only to bust their ass off a exit at the same time ,3 days of intruction are not a replacement for miles on the saddle , the MSF needs to be modified to allow riders to get the bike up to 70 mph , riding on wet floor , locking the rear and front tires , riding with a passenger (maybe a dummy?) highspeed emergency stops and swerves .

The MSF is a good start and enough ... to ride a 50cc scooter ...

"And the world will be better for this;That one man scorned and covered with scars;Still strove with his last ounce of courage;To reach the unreachable star."
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post #22 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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Noobs shouldn't be learning to ride and carrying a passenger. That's just a bad idea all around.

I agree that most of the drills we did were not very applicable to moving at a real speed. Some of the drill they make you do are just a bad thing to try at a real speed, like standing the bike up and emergency stopping in a corner. If you are going super slow that's fine, but so many people already crash motorcycles by putting them into the ditch because they didn't think they could negotiate the corner. They do an advanced class here that is done on a go-kart track, I assume that's more relevant to riding in something that's not a parking lot.

I did take my MSF class in the rain, BTW.

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post #23 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamr View Post
AV8r - a 250 can go down in a stall or something similar. It's a lot less likely to than a bigger bike, but if you're a touch slow getting a foot down you'll go over. New riders especially are often a touch slow. No real harm done usually, but it's easy to lose a strip of skin from wrists or ankles so don't use the fact that you're on a 250 as an excuse not to wear boots and gloves.
I should have worded that better. Let me clarify:

Obviously, any bike can tip over while coming to a stop or while at a stop. The thing with the 250R is, the relatively low height and weight are less of a factor; it's harder to drop it because of those two things. It won't get a hold of you like something heavier/taller.

I never said anything about not wearing boots or gloves. I don't know if that was directed at me or not.

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post #24 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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I think you guys have convinced me to just go with a 250. A few months ago I was pretty set on it but then I was convinced by a friend (who was also planning on getting his first bike) to get the 650 since it is similar in price and insurance but wont be out grown.

He isnt getting a bike anymore so I have no one to try to impress (not that that is a good reason) so I think I would rather be safe and just get the 250. Not to mention, i can save a bit of money since they are almost a grand less or so than 650's. I figure, I will want to upgrade even if I have a 650...but I cant physically upgrade too much higher than that since I am tiny and dont want much more power so at least with the 250, I still have feasible upgrades available

I watched a 15 min video about some guy describing the msf course showing some things he had to do and it does seem kind of pointless; looks like most of the stuff he showed would only be helpful riding around in parking lots. Then again, a lot of drops happen in parking lots at slow speeds so I guess it is helpful in a way.
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post #25 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venom400 View Post
MSF in my opinion is a good start but it is worthless as a learning tool by itself , I have two co workers come out of the MSF only to bust their ass off a exit at the same time ,3 days of intruction are not a replacement for miles on the saddle , the MSF needs to be modified to allow riders to get the bike up to 70 mph , riding on wet floor , locking the rear and front tires , riding with a passenger (maybe a dummy?) highspeed emergency stops and swerves .

The MSF is a good start and enough ... to ride a 50cc scooter ...
I've seen you on a pic, riding a scooter...was that before or after your class.....? So you know what you are talking about, right....?
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post #26 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SwagenGTI View Post
I think you guys have convinced me to just go with a 250. A few months ago I was pretty set on it but then I was convinced by a friend (who was also planning on getting his first bike) to get the 650 since it is similar in price and insurance but wont be out grown.

He isnt getting a bike anymore so I have no one to try to impress (not that that is a good reason) so I think I would rather be safe and just get the 250. Not to mention, i can save a bit of money since they are almost a grand less or so than 650's. I figure, I will want to upgrade even if I have a 650...but I cant physically upgrade too much higher than that since I am tiny and dont want much more power so at least with the 250, I still have feasible upgrades available

I watched a 15 min video about some guy describing the msf course showing some things he had to do and it does seem kind of pointless; looks like most of the stuff he showed would only be helpful riding around in parking lots. Then again, a lot of drops happen in parking lots at slow speeds so I guess it is helpful in a way.
Never mind that you'll be dropping a bike that is not yours, and you won't have to pay for the damage, either...
I've seen a lot of...uhmmm...ignorant wannabe future motorcyle riders...not saying 'bikers'...in a MSF class that had bought bikes before they knew how to ride one. Some of them traded the bikes for something smaller after they had finally passed the class...
It's not useless...it is smart.
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post #27 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwagenGTI View Post
I watched a 15 min video about some guy describing the msf course showing some things he had to do and it does seem kind of pointless; looks like most of the stuff he showed would only be helpful riding around in parking lots. Then again, a lot of drops happen in parking lots at slow speeds so I guess it is helpful in a way.
It's not pointless. It teaches you the fundamentals, which you then take and practice out on the street.

Know what counter-steering is? How a high-side happens? Take the course. About 70% of riders who are in a crash are untrained riders.

-Will

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post #28 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 03:51 PM
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Im new to riding, been riding a little over 3 months
-took the msf course
*it is of great help, knowing all the basic skills, recommend it to every new rider
- bought a ninja 650r as my first bike
*yesterday was the first time ever i've riden it on the highway (cool and a bit scary i might say at first)
-personally i think the 650 is an ok starting bike if u take ur time and respect it. I started riding it around my street then progressively upgraded to the backroads
I havent had any bad experience with it being too powerful, and hope i wont
I have had some close calls on the streets with distracted drivers, but i feel the msf course drills into u the skills like turning ur head and stuff that saved me
With that said i am 5'11" so i can touch the ground easily with both feet, since u might not be able to, it might be a bit harder for u and feel more heavy
Anywho thats my five cents...ride safe


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post #29 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja500hs View Post
I've seen you on a pic, riding a scooter...was that before or after your class.....? So you know what you are talking about, right....?
HEY! that scooter was actually a 150cc and I did rent a 50cc a couple of times , I went through more steps that 80% of the people I know hhaha, anyhow I sold that scooter after 3 weeks for as much as I paid for it so it was worth it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja500hs View Post
Never mind that you'll be dropping a bike that is not yours, and you won't have to pay for the damage, either...
I've seen a lot of...uhmmm...ignorant wannabe future motorcyle riders...not saying 'bikers'...in a MSF class that had bought bikes before they knew how to ride one. Some of them traded the bikes for something smaller after they had finally passed the class...
It's not useless...it is smart.
I started a 250 , owned it for a year , I mastered that thing and it gave me the confidence to do things on bikes that has saved my life one time.

use it , then sell it and buy what you want, chances are if you start on a 650 you will want to upgrade from that too , may as wells start on something smaller , lighter and that will devaluate less .

"And the world will be better for this;That one man scorned and covered with scars;Still strove with his last ounce of courage;To reach the unreachable star."
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post #30 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garibay View Post
Im new to riding, been riding a little over 3 months
-took the msf course
*it is of great help, knowing all the basic skills, recommend it to every new rider
- bought a ninja 650r as my first bike
*yesterday was the first time ever i've riden it on the highway (cool and a bit scary i might say at first)
-personally i think the 650 is an ok starting bike if u take ur time and respect it. I started riding it around my street then progressively upgraded to the backroads
I havent had any bad experience with it being too powerful, and hope i wont
I have had some close calls on the streets with distracted drivers, but i feel the msf course drills into u the skills like turning ur head and stuff that saved me
With that said i am 5'11" so i can touch the ground easily with both feet, since u might not be able to, it might be a bit harder for u and feel more heavy
Anywho thats my five cents...ride safe


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In theory some people could start on a Zx-10 if you respect it as you say , but as a rule of thumb you are more likely to develop good riding habits and proper shifting and control on a 250 , there is plenty of time to ride , why ruin it with a nasty accident and cut your riding career short ?

"And the world will be better for this;That one man scorned and covered with scars;Still strove with his last ounce of courage;To reach the unreachable star."
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