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ABS mandatory on bikes starting in 2016 in Europe

8K views 74 replies 22 participants last post by  fafpak 
#1 ·
#37 ·
This

Doing that will usually disable the traction control also which is nice ;)


MotoPG is coming out with anti wheelie crap also. Wait until that hits the market. People will be pissed.

Let me ride the bike not the computer. I dont even like how the new liters, like the R1 for example, have different power modes. I'de just leave it in A mode all the time, even if it was raining.

Skill > ABS. A few of us including myself can break down why proper threshold breaking will stop you faster then just slamming the brakes on an ABS system, but I dont think I want to bother.

The problem is that most people dont have the skill to get good at it. I say screw those people and let them drive cars.

I still lock my rear up sometimes because it really is hard to do, but I know how to handle a skidding tire and its actually fun. When ABS becomes standard and no one knows what to do when the tire locks up anymore, people will die when the ABS fails, or if it activates on gravel.
 
#4 ·
Why you want to disable it? I guess locking up the rear can be fun...but I'd love to have ABS on my street bike. I think it's a great safety feature. My only complaint is cost...when bikes are getting more and more expensive as it is.
-Cody
 
#7 ·
I'd hold on on this for a while.

A vote of the European Parliament doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to beome law.

If it does, why worry? ABS gives a useful insurance policy for most riders most of the time, and most ABS systems are de activated by nothing more complicated than pulling the fuse.

Rob
 
#14 ·
And here's a video...they stopped better with the ABS everytime

-Cody
 
#15 ·
That's the video I was looking for. Yes in cars you can usually stop sooner in a straight line without ABS, but you cannot steer nearly as well and the panic can still make you easily lock up your wheels. Bikes are a whole other story. I like bikes that have ABS, but don't think it should be mandatory.
 
#17 ·
I do wish people would stop rabbiting on about the track when we're talking about something meant for the street. I've never activated the ABS except to test it. If you're clumsy enough to activate it, you probably need it.

If you're using your brakes on the street to the point where you're outbreaking the ABS (and most of the time, in less than perfect conditions on a less than perfect surface you can't, whatever you might wrongly think), then you're already three quarters crashed if there's traffic around.

The extra weight is a couple of KG, set low in front of the swinging arm where it has negligeable effect on anything. With the fuse pulled the entire system is by-passed, apart from the extra length of the brake lines. I don't like having to pay for things I don't want, but I'm ambivalent about ABS - it's a useful insurance policy for when you screw up.

I don't understand the comments about margin of safety. Most systems only operate when there's a measurable discrepancy between front and rear wheel speeds. If you're braking and there is such a discrepancy you're doing it wrong. If you're deliberately overbraking the rear to slide it then you may have a problem, but that isn't a good idea on the street.

I have seen a couple of systems on scooters in conjunction with linked brakes where there's a measure of servo assistance as well as the ABS, and the components of the system can't be separated. I'd avoid anything like that.

If I can ask a question of these track riders - if you're so good, why aren't you winning GPs?

Rob
 
#18 ·
I
If I can ask a question of these track riders - if you're so good, why aren't you winning GPs?

Rob
If you're so concerned about personal injury and having all these backup and redundant safety systems to pull your ass out of the fire if you over-ride your skill set why do you ride a motorcycle or advocate the sport at alll ?
 
#19 ·
I don't see much of a problem. By 2016 they will have continued to refine their systems and 99.9 percent of riders wont be able to outbrake it in the best conditions. Its not like they aren't pouring millions into rnd on these systems with hours of test riding them. And as far as the couple kilos it's not like most people don't have 4-5 pounds they could lose if they really wanted too if they are that concerned about it.

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#22 ·
I bet if you add an extra couple of wheels and put a cage around the bike it will be even faster to stop, plus be much safer in an accident ....
 
#29 ·
I'll just leave this here for the doubters...

“We did some tests with professional racers on a wet track and found the rider with ABS went a second faster, which surprised him. He found he could brake later, later, later and still not activate the system. When he tried to push the limit he found that he had to overcome his feelings and trust the ABS to use later braking points,” revealed Hauser.

Read more: Anti-lock braking systems set to enter World Superbikes? - Sport Rider Magazine
 
#30 ·
I'll just say this.

No matter what "safety features" they put on bikes, cars, boats, planes, trains, submarines, tug boats, snowmobiles, atv's, side-by-sides, yadda yadda yadda, people will always be dumb and be people and find a way to crash them.

Shit, all's drivers now a days need is a cell phone and a car and they're driving a 3,000lb + death machine.

My bike doesn't have ABS, and I have panic stopped plenty of times without it. However, in the wet, and on the sandy roads down here in Vegas, It'd be nice to have some times when street riding.
 
#31 ·
My bike doesn't have ABS, and I have panic stopped plenty of times without it. However, in the wet, and on the sandy roads down here in Vegas, It'd be nice to have some times when street riding.
My point of view exactly. Except if you panic stop a lot you need to work on your defensive riding and positioning.

Wildcard - I might have confused your argument with someone elses. Cost is a valid argument. I'm happy to pay to provide extra safety for less skilled riders, but I can afford to. How much we balance mandatory safety improvements with the cost is not something I'm comfortable arguing. I will say that it will do none of us any good if we price motorcycling out of reach of most people. It used to be a cheap alternative to a car. It still is if you stay with the under 650 cc bikes that we all used to ride. You could argue that it should only be fitted to bigger bikes where the owners are more likely to manage the cost, but that's taking it away from the riders most likely to need it.

Rob
 
#34 ·
I'm not talking about the training required to become a better rider, that's totally fine. Accidents have already gone down in the past 4-5 years since they changed the laws concerning mandatory courses etc to get your license. I'm referring to the high costs associated in doing so, the long waiting periods to do the exams (probably due to poor organization) and the mandatory 11-months you have to wait between learner license and full license so you can ride on your own (it was previously 7 months whihc made perfect sense, 11 months is excessive)
 
#35 ·
I hate the goverment getting involved in anything I enjoy, Got tired of everything going to hell. Shit half the stuff my girlfriend do in the bedroom is illegal in the state we live in, and let me tell you in Alabama pretty much anything besides missionary position is considered "A crime aganst nature"..

That being said hopefully if its mandated the cost won't be too bad, and given that it may lessen the number of accidents a lot of new riders have, and more experienced riders who push it too hard on the street, and the odd puddle of oil or antifreeze that may cause a drop at a stoplight hopefully it could lower insurance rates and we recoup some of the cost back.

I know its a hinderance to track riders, but as stated above, pull a fuse, remove the pumps, install some braided lines from the MC to the caliper and boom you're done, and as far as the ABS system being integrated into the bikes electronics, and possibly setting a "FI" type light or something? Well, Theres a servo buddy that gets around removing the exhaust servo now isn't there? So I'm sure someone will figure out how to simulate the ABS electronics to fix that little problem if it becomes an issue.
 
#36 ·
I am still opposed to it on the race track, in the same way I am opposed to all electronic rider aids like traction control, wheelie control, launch control, etc.

It does make a lot of sense on the street, though. I would be lying if I said I never crashed on the brakes as a newbie.


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#38 ·
I am still opposed to it on the race track, in the same way I am opposed to all electronic rider aids like traction control, wheelie control, launch control, etc.

It does make a lot of sense on the street, though. I would be lying if I said I never crashed on the brakes as a newbie.
I agree. I'm still on the fence about whether quick shifters should be allowed, but at least you're still making the shift. But I digress, as the R&D wouldn't be there if it wasn't for those racers using it on the track.





And actually, I was mistaken. The guy I know that rode his BMW S1000RR did de-activate the ABS because it made the front end chatter.

But I still say 98% of riders can't outbrake an ABS-controlled bike. The new zx10 monitors braking 200x / second. Sorry dude, you can't think faster than a computer....and they're only going to get better.
-Cody
 
#40 ·
I dont follow it that much, the last video I saw they where talking about it coming out so it may have very well been from 2004. I'm just saying that I wont be surprised when we start seeing wheelie control systems on bikes sitting at the dealership. They are putting ABS and traction control on street bikes already, wheelie control is the next logical step. I dont want any of it but I'm willing to bet that no one will want there computer keeping there 10R from lifting the front end off the ground.
 
#41 ·
The new zx10 and bmw s1000rr already have wheelie control...
-Cody
 
#44 · (Edited)
I dont get the bitching

"Regular brakes stop faster" = ego

"ABS sucks on the track" = who is buying a brand new bike to do track days with??? And if you are, why wouldn't you want the added insurance of ABS, as even w/insurance you'd prob be paying to fix the bike out of pocket?

"Cost cost cost"= $500 on a $5000, $7000, $10000 purchase is nothing, so if that $500 will break you you couldn't afford it in the first place. Plus in any case there are plenty of non-ABS used bikes for way less than even a new Ninja 300

Americans are incredibly stupid and obstinate when it comes to so many things that make sense, including safety. I would bet the same folks decrying ABS wear some kind of gear every time they ride. What is wrong with ABS on a street bike? I agree that folks should train to brake more, you have to be pretty hamfisted to lock the front tire, at least in a straight line... but ABS is good money
 
#50 ·
I dont get the bitching

"Regular brakes stop faster" = ego

"ABS sucks on the track" = who is buying a brand new bike to do track days with??? And if you are, why wouldn't you want the added insurance of ABS, as even w/insurance you'd prob be paying to fix the bike out of pocket?

"Cost cost cost"= $500 on a $5000, $7000, $10000 purchase is nothing, so if that $500 will break you you couldn't afford it in the first place. Plus in any case there are plenty of non-ABS used bikes for way less than even a new Ninja 300

Americans are incredibly stupid and obstinate when it comes to so many things that make sense, including safety. I would bet the same folks decrying ABS wear some kind of gear every time they ride. What is wrong with ABS on a street bike? I agree that folks should train to brake more, you have to be pretty hamfisted to lock the front tire, at least in a straight line... but ABS is good money
Motorcycling in itself does not make sense nor is it safe. I wear almost full gear everytime i ride (sometimes just jeans instead of ballistic pants) BECAUSE RIDING IS NOT SAFE.

In all of my years of riding i can count the number if times i had to panic stop on one hand (knock on wood) so in my mind ABS is way down the list of things that i need to be safer on a motorcycle. Now if you count the number of times i've had to dodge cars almost running into the back of me, running me over and merging into my lane that becomes a much more significant thing.

When they can come up with some kind of "anti douchebag cock gobbling moron cage driver on a cell phone" system i will glady pay an extra $500-1000 dollars for that.

And you must be made of money if you can seriously say that $500 extra for nothing you will use is not significant, i could use that money for a new helmet, jacket, gloves, etc. rather than piss it away on some electric dick fondler that i'm just going to remove the fuse out of anyway.
 
#46 ·
You might be surprised how many people buy brand new bikes to race.
i would say its a drop in the bucket compared to all new bike sales ;)
-Cody
 
#48 ·
The BMW's and 10R's already have it? :( thats sad.

If I where to buy a new 10R you can bet your ass I would know how to disable it before I even went to look at one. Whats the point of having a 10R if you never power wheelie lol.

Sporty, the argument is that some of us like having bikes that will put us on our ass if you push it to hard. It makes riding fun. I don't want a bike to do anything I don't tell it to, or not do something I tell it to. If I tell it to point the headlight to the sky or lock up the back tire and damn it I want it to do it. I like knowing that I have to let off the gas when I go over the paint in a crosswalk.

Would you buy a Camaro that you could not turn the traction control off on? Its the same thing.

You are having computerized crap do something for you that you should already know how to do yourself. We live in an age of not having to have any skill because everything is done for you, that is not a good thing.

Since they started putting automatics in semi trucks, all kinds of problems have been happening for the same reason. Its ridiculous. If you are behind the wheel of something that big you should know how to shift an unsynchronized 15 speed already.

I'm OK with FI on sport bikes for performance reasons. But there is a reason I drive an old 78 pickup truck most the time. There are no electronics or emissions of any kind keeping that truck from running, I like the fact that half the people on the planet can not start it when its cold.

This is just the start, we already have cars that will let off the gas if you are following to close FFS. Learn to operate what you are driving or riding, if you do not have the skill to ride a "raw" bike, you have no business being on one.

As for ABS, sport bikes can already loop if you break to hard, does the ABS keep that from happening? The rear not locking up doesnt mean dick is its off the ground.
 
#49 ·
weebel weebel weebel know things before you form opinions on them







You can turn the shit off

And please explain a scenario in which you would like to lock up the front tire... when is that ever desirable

Like I said this anti-safety stuff is pure ego. "I WANT to crash if I get in over my head" :rolleyes: Like you can't wreck a bike w/ABS + traction control










And like I said if having a bike that won't lock up the front under panic braking is too much for your ego to stand you can buy an old bike that doesn't have it

I understand wanting to seek thrills and push the limits but there's a difference between doing that and just taking on risk you don't have to. Locking up the front in a panic stop or high siding a bike is not "fun" or "good risk", its just stupid

My next bike will have ABS if I can afford it
 
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#52 ·
Fuck this shit. Should be the RIDER'S choice if they want ABS or not. The government puts their hands in enough places that they shouldn't as it is. Soon we will barely be able to do or buy anything fun.

Putting a giant protective bubble around motorcycles will most definitely save noob riders from falling or dropping their bikes, let's make that shit legal too?!?! seriously, fuck off.
 
#60 ·
Some people just will not be satisfied until everything potentially dangerous has been made illegal.

I learned to drive in non-abs equipped vehicles, and I still catch myself threshold braking in my ABS equipped truck. Do they even mention that shit in drivers Ed anymore.


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