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Old 11-06-2012, 06:31 PM   #8861 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by goingtoscotland View Post
I want to see Lorenzo on his 1000 try the shit Garry Mccoy did with a 500GP bike. It would end TERRIBLY.


Besides, MotoGP is there for our enjoyment and pleasure, and right now the racing is shit.
Ok? Not even Stoner rides like McCoy on a 500. Nobody does. different bikes, different tires. McCoy couldn't even ride a current gp the way he used to ride a 500.

How many races and titles did McCoy win again?
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:44 PM   #8862 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by goingtoscotland View Post
You're not getting it. The discussion was solely about TRACTION and LAUNCH CONTROL. Nothing more. Ignore the rest of the bike. It's about being able to get the power to the ground. The 4 strokes aren't even in the same league the 2 strokes were. Not to mention KR's tires didn't even have as much grip as a set of Q2s or S20s. It's like a pink Barbie Corvette vs a ZR1.

Jorge said "traction control is NECESSARY." Obviously this is not the case.

Jorge cannot ride a premier class bike without traction control at all. We saw that at Laguna. Shit, a couple years ago he couldn't ride one WITH traction control half the time.

Sure, let's talk about Jorge's rookie season to make a point about how well he can handle a GP bike, that makes a lot of sense. Or the time his traction control fucked up on him. If you thought you had TC and it wasn't there, you'd be on your ass too. You think he would be riding like that if he knew the TC wasn't on? Plenty great riders crash a lot in their rookie year including Rossi and Stoner, until they come to grips with the machine. The Suzuki riders back in the early 990 era crashed a lot because of the inconsistency of the electronics. Does that mean they cannot ride a bike without rider aids? No, it means the bike's system fucked up a lot. KR Jr was one of those Suzuki riders. ONE time Jorge's bike's electronics weren't acting right and you conclude he can't ride without the aids? Makes sense... I guess crashing once or twice makes a rider a habitual crasher too.

How do you know 'traction control is necessary' is not the case? Nobody rides these bikes without traction control. They are not meant to be ridden without traction control. It's part of the entire design of the bike. You can't say, OK just turn off the traction control and let's see you go as fast as you did before.

Traction control and launch control are part of the bike's entire electronics system. It's not like, OK just turn one of them off.

You think KR could put down the laptimes Jorge can on a modern GP bike? No. But like I already said, it's an impossible comparison. Saying the two bikes is like a barbie car to a corvette is stupid. The old 500s were sliding bucking machines that could be ridden with less precision because of the limited technology and tire grip that was available to them. Crappy tires (relative to today), crappy suspension, limp noodle frames = bikes that can be muscled around and twisted out of shape and still achieve good laptimes. Today's bikes aren't anything like that. Stiff tires, stiff frames, way more horsepower. They require a completely different riding style. They require more precision. Of course an old GP rider like KR is not going to be all that fond of them.

To try to discredit Jorge's skill or the skill needed to ride a modern GP bike, you're making up impossible scenarios. If they were so easy to ride, why can't more riders ride them better? Reminds me of when everybody was so sure Casey was only fast because he had full faith in the electronics and just grabbed handfuls of throttle everywhere. How wrong they were. They are far from, twist the throttle and go fast bikes. If they were, more riders (with capable machines) would be on the podium and/or winning races.
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Last edited by Kurosaki; 11-06-2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:59 PM   #8863 (permalink)
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500GP 2 stroke = Improvise your shit up, with balls out.

1000GP 4 stroke = Take notes, do math, find marks, and memorize every input for every corners.


That's how I see in them.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:31 PM   #8864 (permalink)
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Extreme (and incorrect) oversimplification...
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Last edited by Kurosaki; 11-06-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:37 PM   #8865 (permalink)
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Maybe so, but I'm not saying they both are easy to ride.


[edit]Incorrect my ass. Why is it so?


You said it yourself, new GP bikes require extreme precision when old GP doesn't. WTF?

Last edited by ZTycho6R; 11-07-2012 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:45 PM   #8866 (permalink)
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Stupid Dorna took down that video before I could watch it

Quote:
Originally Posted by goingtoscotland View Post
Prototypes get car rear tires. CRTs get Shinkos.
Shinkos...lol
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:53 PM   #8867 (permalink)
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NM, found it on RFM
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:31 AM   #8868 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kurosaki View Post
Sure, let's talk about Jorge's rookie season to make a point about how well he can handle a GP bike, that makes a lot of sense. Or the time his traction control fucked up on him. If you thought you had TC and it wasn't there, you'd be on your ass too. You think he would be riding like that if he knew the TC wasn't on? Plenty great riders crash a lot in their rookie year including Rossi and Stoner, until they come to grips with the machine. The Suzuki riders back in the early 990 era crashed a lot because of the inconsistency of the electronics. Does that mean they cannot ride a bike without rider aids? No, it means the bike's system fucked up a lot. KR Jr was one of those Suzuki riders. ONE time Jorge's bike's electronics weren't acting right and you conclude he can't ride without the aids? Makes sense... I guess crashing once or twice makes a rider a habitual crasher too.

How do you know 'traction control is necessary' is not the case? Nobody rides these bikes without traction control. They are not meant to be ridden without traction control. It's part of the entire design of the bike. You can't say, OK just turn off the traction control and let's see you go as fast as you did before.

Traction control and launch control are part of the bike's entire electronics system. It's not like, OK just turn one of them off.

You think KR could put down the laptimes Jorge can on a modern GP bike? No. But like I already said, it's an impossible comparison. Saying the two bikes is like a barbie car to a corvette is stupid. The old 500s were sliding bucking machines that could be ridden with less precision because of the limited technology and tire grip that was available to them. Crappy tires (relative to today), crappy suspension, limp noodle frames = bikes that can be muscled around and twisted out of shape and still achieve good laptimes. Today's bikes aren't anything like that. Stiff tires, stiff frames, way more horsepower. They require a completely different riding style. They require more precision. Of course an old GP rider like KR is not going to be all that fond of them.

To try to discredit Jorge's skill or the skill needed to ride a modern GP bike, you're making up impossible scenarios. If they were so easy to ride, why can't more riders ride them better? Reminds me of when everybody was so sure Casey was only fast because he had full faith in the electronics and just grabbed handfuls of throttle everywhere. How wrong they were. They are far from, twist the throttle and go fast bikes. If they were, more riders (with capable machines) would be on the podium and/or winning races.

You're still not getting it, Joe?

Traction control is obviously not necessary on a GP bike. They did it for 40 years before it was implemented. Do you or Jorge understand what necessary means?
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Last edited by goingtoscotland; 11-07-2012 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:10 AM   #8869 (permalink)
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So what I'm getting at with goingtoscotland's point that Kurosaki doesnt.

Is that REAL men race bikes with no TC, regardless of how much power it puts out that it become impossible to ride for anyone who's not sensitive enough to the machinery.

If there was no TC rule, Rossi would been of a contender this year.

Is that right or am I way off?
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:02 AM   #8870 (permalink)
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You're still not getting it, Joe?

Traction control is obviously not necessary on a GP bike. They did it for 40 years before it was implemented. Do you or Jorge understand what necessary means?
You have no proof to say so. Maybe it's you who doesn't get it.
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