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Question about HID headlights...

7K views 97 replies 19 participants last post by  nivek_16 
#1 ·
Here is my newbie question:

I have a 08 Ninja 250r with HID headlights and wanted to ask why on regular beam, only 1 light shows and when I press high beam the 2nd bulb comes alive. Is this all HID headlights or just a specific kind I have or is mine just messed up? The previous owner installed the HID headlights so I don't know anything about them. Is there a way I can make both light bulbs display light on regular beam?
 
#49 ·
I'm special :D:D
 
#53 ·
Oh god , altough I agree 100% with what Rob Williams has said , and everyone else about the proper equipment and the right way to do HIDs .

It is not as bad as people are making it sound like , maybe if you do a lot of highway riding and you going around a 2 way road in pitch black it may blind someone that has problems with light sensitivity .

But if your ride is around well illuminated streets in a meotrpolitan areas it is not as bad as everyone is making it sound .

Some people here are making it sound like it is like using your gas tank fill hole as a cigarette ash tray .

It is true that there are better alternatives to HID and I wish I knew them before I got my "made in china" HID kit , but it has done a good job for me so far and I am planning to keep them .
 
#55 ·
I sort of agree with Venom about the dazzle not being so bad (just very annoying instead of really dangerous) if you just ride around well lit streets, but if you do that all the time you don't need HIDs anyway.

Just make sure that you replace the HIDs every time you move away from the well lit streets.

Rob
 
#57 ·
All I know is that EVERY vehicle that ive come across other then new BMW's with HID's have blinded the ever living hell out of me. Mercedes tends to have some bright ass lights but I dont think they are HID.

Stock halogens on newer vehicles are so f-ing bright and light up the road so well that you dont need anything else. I hate it when asshats but HID's on shit just because they think it looks cool and all I can see is a ball of blue light coming at me down the road at night.
 
#58 ·
the Blue ones are annyoing as hell , if you stay on the lower end of the spectrum where is just pure white then it is not too bad ,the ones I have have a hint of blue but are white , the blue blue ones are annoying as hell ,and the purple ones are even worse , even worse is the fact that I have seen Semi trucks putting blue HID lights on their trucks ..
 
#59 ·
Those guys putting HID's on semi truckd are not going to pass a DOT inspection, they are retards if they are doing that. They would have to almost know a DOT officer really well or take it to a place that just hands the stickers out.

BTW when I've said I drive for a living now.. I meant drive semi trucks ;)

I've wondered though.. why would you want your headlights any color other then white since that carries the most light and gives you the best vision? Do people just care more about what looks cool then being able to see or do they really think it works better?
 
#60 ·
"People just care more about what looks cool than being able to see."

This is it for many thousands, the type of young person that will put blinding headlight bulbs, a large diameter fart can exhaust outlet, and other mostly useless crap on their old beater that burns oil, instead of getting a valve job and maybe new piston rings that they really need.

When they blow the engine from too much nitrous oxide, some of these scum will then steal a newer car for its engine, raising the insurance rates for everyone.
 
#61 ·
I was guilty of being an idiot when I was younger (more than I am now what do you know ? hah) and installing extremely loud pipes on my RX7s , and sound systems that were designed to be noise makers instead of clarity , (two 15s subs on a rx7s lol) now most of my money goes to functionality and clarity .

Edit:eek:h and those guys with semis that have blue lights I am sure they have a switch to turn on the regular ones when going through inspections , altough I don''t know how they get away with no getting pulled over by DOT cops since those guys are ruthless.
 
#65 ·
I dont mean to argue with you or anything, because you are probably far more intelligent then me when it comes to this, but you completely just contradicted yourself. Before you stated that there were "no exceptions" and that in short that HIDs should never go into a non projector housings... and now your saying that some housings do work. That's exactly what I stated... that some housings have a beam pattern that is friendly to HIDs
 
#67 ·
very true, but then who is the one that dictates the line between the two? not only that, but I used friendly as a loose term. I meant as in - not aggravating to oncoming traffic.
 
#68 ·
Honestly, the traffic around you. I tried them, and when I went back to halogen bulbs found that I could actually see better when driving, especially outside of the lighted traffic arteries.
 
#69 · (Edited)
In a thread like this, sometimes you don't quite use the same words every time to mean the same thing. I'll say it slightly differently. HIDs should never go into a housing not designed for HIDs. All aftermarket HID assemblies are projector styled. Therefore, all aftermarket HID fittings should be projector styled assemblies designed for HID emitters. I think a few of us have used words slightly loosly in this thread.

Start with the idea in one sense there's no such thing as a projector - only projector styled lens/reflector assemblies, but we tend to talk about projectors using the words loosely. The important thing is that that assembly, whether its projector styled or not, will only work properly with the bulb or emitter it's designed for. And that isn't just a case of HID or Halogen. An H7 halogen won't work properly in an assembly designed for H4 or H8. The point has been beaten to death. THe only housings that have a beam pattern friendly to HIDs are those designed for HID - and only for a specific HGID at that. Those housings are not friendly to halogens.

I suspect that Nivek is just being mischevious with his argument. I find it hard to believe that anybody could actually be so obtuse unless it was deliberate.

Incidentally, it isn't rocket science.While the mathematics of any particular design of lens/reflector/emitter are a bit complex, the basic principles of reflection and refraction are completely covered in the 'O' level physics course that used to be taken at age 16.

Rob
 
#71 ·
please do not insult my intelligence... I am a very detail oriented and meticulous person. So when things are loosely said and contradictory to previous statements, I put 2 and 2 together and ask for clarification.

I was not, in any way, trying to initiate any type of personal dispute with you.

My viewpoint on this is that the housing does not need to be specifically designed for an HID bulb. Obviously there are certain exceptions to the rule. you cannot say that no HID bulb will have an acceptable beam pattern if it is put into a halogen housing. A reflector is a reflector. when light is emitted from a filament towards the reflector, as long as the filament is emitting from the vicinity of the same spot, it will bounce off the reflector in the same pattern.
 
#73 ·
My viewpoint on this is that the housing does not need to be specifically designed for an HID bulb. .
This is the misconception that I (and others) are trying to drive out of your head.

Bulb (or emitter) lens and reflector are an assembly. Changing any part alters the shape of the beam. The assembly must have the specific halogen bulb or HID emitter that it was designed for.

Your viewpoint is irelevant. It is simply wrong. This isn't personal, but my frustration with your apparent inability to understand this very simple fact is beginning to show.

Rob
 
#72 ·
The housing needs to be specifically designed for the bulb its going to use regardless. HID's in a halogen housing suck. By the same token, a halogen bulb in a HID housing would suck as well.

You need to think about the entire headlight not just the bulb.
 
#77 ·
In what way is that being too general?

Whats acceptable or not acceptable? Blinding other drivers while LOWERING your ability to see at night. That crosses the line of acceptability.

Dude I dont care if your in IT or not. I went to college myself and am a certified network administrator and cabling specialist. Iim also a certified mechanic.

None of that means dick in this conversation. The bulbs shine inward and the light is reflected out. The housing is more important then the damn bulb (well the type anyway).
 
#74 ·
Your making a vague statement that has only partial truth to it.

Ill put this into perspective for you so that you can understand this simple concept...

In order for you to state that an HID bulb will not work in a halogen housing, PERIOD, you would then need to test and compare outputs from every housing using both bulb types. Also, you would need to determine and define what is acceptable and what is not.

your extreme stubbornness in this situation is like stating that if a person gets bit by a snake, you will die... we all know that that is a false statement because it is dependent on several facts such as: is the snake venomous, and if so, what does this person weigh and how much venom has been induced...

Basically you are stating facts for something that is entirely variable being that not every housing and bulb combination will be the same.

Yet again im going to state that im not trying to be a dick, im just trying to get you to see where im coming from.
 
#75 · (Edited)
Actually you just use a computer program to design the assembly. You can use the program to move the emission point source or alter its shape and that will show you the change in the beam pattern. You can also model the effects of using a different bulb or emitter, which will have the filament positioned slightly differently. The HID emitter has a point spource that is a different shape to anything that can be produced by a filament, so there's no way any HID emitter can operate properly in a reflector or projector designed for a halogen.

Before being certified as road legal the assembly is lab tested to confirm the accuracy of the computer model and that the beam pattern conforms to the regulations.

Any slight movement of the point source from the designed position will affect the beam pattern The shape of the beam pattern is defined by national regulations. What you might consider acceptable is of no relevance at all. The US low beam pattern is different to the assymetric pattern used in the EU, but homologation rules allow a degree of interchange.

You really are going to a lot of effort to deny something that is really rather obvious. I'm an engineer. I don't do vague. Either something meets the specs or the regs, or it doesn't. Each bulb or emitter meets international standards for the bulb type, in terms of the key'd base, and the filament or arc position and shape relative to that base. For a given bulb, the lens/reflector assembly is then designed around that. Any different bulb or emitter will not meet the spec for that assembly. Get it through your head that is precisely the position if you put any HID emitter in a housing designed around a halogen bulb.

Why do I think that you're a media studies graduate lol? Maybe your view that if you repeat you non argument often enough it'll become true? It won't. I don't think you're being a dick. I just think you're not very bright, which may be why you don't understand the basic truths about lights.

Rob
 
#76 ·
your way off... I work in IT, and have a very technical mind, hence why I am questioning your theory.

I understand where your coming from, in regards to whether or not it is APPROVED or not... i get that. You are being very close minded on this subject. This is not digital electronics ok?!? The fact that there are many different bulb types and many different shaped housing combinations, that makes this scenario entirely variable... this is not an on/off switch (works or doesn't).

all i am trying to get you to understand is that it is entirely possible to have a combination of HID bulb and Halogen housing that is no more irritating to the eye as having the original halogen bulb.

As I was driving down the road yesterday, I was watching the headlights... (i know what cars come with HIDs and which ones do not) there was a lifted Dodge Ram with aftermarket HIDs in it... they were very bright and irritating to my eyes. However, later on, I passed a KIA Soul with aftermarket HIDs driving right next to a 04-08? Acura TL which comes with HIDs. Both cars had similar outputs, and the KIAs lights were not irritating to the eye.

im not trying to say that all HID bulbs will work in halogen housings, all im saying is that it is possible to have an HID bulb in a halogen housing that will not be irritating to other drivers.

I hope that I am making this simple enough for you to understand. Im trying to put this into perspective for you. You keep calling me stupid, however, you are just stating the same thing over and over and over again that is a completely irrelevant counter argument to what im talking about lol.

damn lol you need to stop over thinking this...

anyways, friends?! :cheers:
 
#79 ·
man.....that was kinda intense there for a minute
 
#81 ·
Yeah, the blue ones really piss me off! Dont they understand that they are making their light output even less? I like pure white tho. My whole bottom line is that there are some (keyword some! lol) halogen housings that work well with HID bulbs. as far as which ones... its all trial and error.

I agree with you completely before about your previous statement: Its not about the bulb or the housing, its the output of the combination of the two.
 
#82 ·
IF they work, they still do not necessarily work well... Just because you don't blind other people doesn't mean they are outperforming the halogen bulb they replaced. The lumen output of a halogen bulb diminishes over time, so the difference in light output is magnified by that as well. The HID kit in my truck worked, but upon switching to a quality halogen after a ballast died I noticed the cutoff lines of the light were more crisp than with the HID setup. That is one quick way to tell that they are somewhat effective.

None of that addresses the fact that all factory installed HID lighting systems use self leveling motors to reduce the light or lens flare over uneven pavement...
 
#84 ·
The problem is that it only does so much. You can go out and buy cheap ass bulbs, or get a set of those $50 silverstar ultra light whatever the hell ones and not be able to tell the slightest difference.

APC however does make some bright ass long lasting halogens. I have them in my car. There was a significant difference with those things when I put them in 6 years ago. They arn't quite as brilliant as they where now but they are damn close. With bulbs, the brand name seems to make a bigger difference then the different models of the same brand.

Im not going to see better at night with anything else. IF you have halogens, then a good bulb is going to give you the best night vision. HID's will always make it worse. Projectors on the other hand.. can go either way.

Even with regular halogens, headlights are soo f-ing bright now a days that I can barely see. Just to make it even worse, half the people have the GOD DAMN RUNNING LIGHTS that come on with there low beams that are just as bright as there high beams. Not to mention that is rare to se a car with correctly adjusted stock lights to begin with. You could always just mount some KC lights to the mofo and get it over with, might as well. I dont even dim the lights on my old truck for these assholes anymore.
 
#85 ·
Two points. There are no halogen housings that work well with HID emitters - unless you are happy with a beam as vague as your ability to think clearly.

Second is about the blue tint. A blue halogen achieves it's colour by using a blue filter which reduces the light output. Most HID emitters simply emit light at a high colour temperature, which means that for those emitters the blue colour does not mean any reduction in light output. What is true though, is that the way the human eye perceives colour means that a yellow light effectively enhances contrast. This makes yellow a much better choice in fog, mist or rain. Night driving glasses are also yellow for the same reason, although personally I'm not sure if enhancing contrast is what's needed in dark but otherwise clear condidtions. Imo, this might make it harder to see into shadows. I'm open to argument either way on that. The French argument, in the days when yellow headlights were mandatory in France (and illegal in Germany lol) was that they reduced eye strain when driving at night. I'm not sure that was true either, but from what I remember they did reduce the dazzle caused by other vehicles.

I had a contract programmer once to write some Access reports when my team was bit busy. He couldn't understand why, if he calculated an average from set of figures, and another average from a second set from a different product line, he couldnt simply average the two averages to produce an overall average. Working in IT is no guarantee of clarity of thought.

Rob
 
#86 · (Edited)
Two points. There are no halogen housings that work well with HID emitters - unless you are happy with a beam as vague as your ability to think clearly.
Rob
yet again... you cannot make that statement unless you have compared every HID bulb in every halogen housing available and compared those outputs. who are you to make that statement? the god of headlights? damn you are ignorant as hell... you just keep avoiding the fact that there is a possibility, it may be slight, but its there. don't you realize that this is all im saying... i never once stated that all HID bulbs will work in halogen housings because that is an idiotic statement to make.

Never once did I stat that because I work in IT, that makes me a smart person. However, I do maintain a fair amount of common sense which you obviously lack. This is easily shown by your inability to understand simple scenarios that I have provided for you. Either that, or you are just so bigoted on this situation that you just decide to deny the facts... you engineers are sometimes so stuck on numbers and calculations that you forget that there is a reality with real life situations, not that I don't respect engineers.

the funny thing is that i respected you before this thread lol

im done here :)
 
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