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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:09 PM
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Cool story bro.

Just cause someone can go 30 years waving thier dick into a wood chipper with no issues dosen't make it a good idea.

FORCING the pawl to the next tooth is putting extra tension on the chain that is not needed as if there was enough chain slack the AUTOMATIC part of the automatic tensioner would have moved the pawl onto the next tooth.

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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:31 PM
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I thought about doing that to my OEM tensioner before but from what I have read it is not hard to accidently jump too far and over tighten the tensioner which can cause major problems. I would rather just buy the manual one and save the trouble of potentially over tightening and have to take more of the bike apart to fix it. It is such an easy swap. Its not even that big a problem just something to get too eventually.

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:43 PM
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This isn't the first time I've posted this procedure in an effort to help my fellow riders save some money and aggravation. Read what a couple of riders who did it had to say....

Quote:

Originally Posted by rundog
Before you spend any money, try this -

ENGINE COLD!

1) Bump your starter a couple of times without starting the motor, just a short bump.

2 Loosen the two bolts at the top and the bottom of the cam chain tensioner from a quarter of a turn to a third of a turn. Do not go further or else you will have to remove and reset the tensioner.

3) Lightly tap on the bolt in the center a wrench or hammer

4) Retighten the two end bolts.

Start your motor. The noise should be completely and immediately gone.

I've done this on a '85 Ninja, a '90 ZX11, and two ZX12s. Simple and effective........


------------------------------------------------------------------------











I've done the same thing on a couple of ZRX1200R. The adjuster gets right at the end of the next notch, the little tap is all it takes to seat it. Dang cam chain sounded like is was coming out of the case.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man....after further reading on these things....why does everyone make it sound like everything on these bikes is under engineered? Do a little research on the part, and everyone says they break all the time, or fall short on adjusting, or OEM are junk and go bad....then others say manual are a PITA and are easily done wrong.....

If all these parts on these bikes are so under engineered, why did Kawasaki use them in a production bike? I would think these breaking could pose a safety issue to the rider when the motor locks up from it popping...

It cracks me up to read stuff like this. Tires, I'm sure preference is one thing, but they made the 200 series for the 12R, for a good reason, and even advise against using a different tire, but folks like to use smaller tires....cool, but I see stuff all over the web saying the 200 is junk and this and that....too funny.

Or the whole swing arm debate. These bikes were made to go like a bat outta hell in a straight line, and still kinda handle some twisties, yet folks like to change them out with other swing arms....very odd...another preference, but I see the same...about how junky they are...

I just find it so odd how internet experts always proclaim that all these things that were engineered by brains much bigger than most of ours and many more of them, are sub-standard. I find this bike handles quite well considering it's size, with the stock forks, swing arm, ride height and everything.

From what I read, it's most likely the tensioner is like rundog said, just in between clicks, but when you read up on these things, all you get is how junky OEM parts are....Yeah, if you race the bike on the reg, I can see modifying the bike, but for street use, I would think this missile is well designed to dispatch most things with ease.

Kawasaki didn't just slap these things together. They put time and engineering into them, otherwise they'd be like $500 a pop. I use all OEM parts, and leave the bike stock length, height, and all that jazz, cause they made it awesome just the way it is. It's all fine and good to bolt on stuff for increases, but to boldly state that OEM parts are no good, well, is just silly.

Rant over.

I don't think I'll be getting a manual tensioner for it. I happen to think the stock parts are more than enough to handle the job they do. I'm sure, like in anything else, there are a few exceptions to the rule, like Monday and Friday bikes....where you get parts that fail. But out of however many are made, to find them 10 or so "experts" with their failures proclaiming that they are all junk...man...that's just makes the jelly belly jiggle a wee bit.

I think I will do the "rundog" and test it out. If the noise goes away, I'll be good, no wasted money, and off to the road once again. In all the bikes I've ridden, I've only had 1 bad tensioner, and in reality, I bought the bike with it that way. And in reality, it was seized up from oxidization...from sitting out in the elements for 6 years.

For those who modify, keep on keeping on...I like my baby just the way she is....

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Just wanted to say...good call rundog...that lil fixaroo took care of the problem toot sweet.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCard View Post
Cool story bro.

Just cause someone can go 30 years waving thier dick into a wood chipper with no issues dosen't make it a good idea.

FORCING the pawl to the next tooth is putting extra tension on the chain that is not needed as if there was enough chain slack the AUTOMATIC part of the automatic tensioner would have moved the pawl onto the next tooth.
There is no forcing of the pawl. You are misunderstanding the way the procedure works. What the procedure does is relieve the pressure against the pawl, allowing the spring tension to move it. By only loosening the bolts enough to create ~2mm of slack, you are ensuring that the pawl only moves about 2mm, which takes it to the next 'step'.

PS The only thing I've been waving my dick around in for the last thirty years has been pussy, but to each their own..................
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:58 PM
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So you post bad advice and people are stupid enough to follow it ? Still fails to dispute the point that you are forcing the CCT to tight by "adjusting" it this way.

"We guard our money with well armed men and our children
with "gun free zone" signs. That's the priorities of the
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rundog View Post
There is no forcing of the pawl. You are misunderstanding the way the procedure works. What the procedure does is relieve the pressure against the pawl, allowing the spring tension to move it. By only loosening the bolts enough to create ~2mm of slack, you are ensuring that the pawl only moves about 2mm, which takes it to the next 'step'.

PS The only thing I've been waving my dick around in for the last thirty years has been pussy, but to each their own..................
Holy shit....

If there isn't enough slack in the chain for the spring to exert enough pressure against the pawl/rachet mechanism to move another "click" then no adjustment is needed. Loosening the CCT to get another "click" out of it is FORCING it to the next adjustment.

"We guard our money with well armed men and our children
with "gun free zone" signs. That's the priorities of the
damned. " - WillBrink
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeurtno View Post
I thought about doing that to my OEM tensioner before but from what I have read it is not hard to accidently jump too far and over tighten the tensioner which can cause major problems. I would rather just buy the manual one and save the trouble of potentially over tightening and have to take more of the bike apart to fix it. It is such an easy swap. Its not even that big a problem just something to get too eventually.

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Mike, I understand your concern. One of the key points of this procedure is to only loosen the mounting bolts from a quarter to a third of a turn. If you look at the pitch of the threads on the bolts(which I have), and compare the distance the bolts move when loosened the prescribed amount to the distance between each stop on the pawl, you will find that they are virtually identical, with any discrepancy falling well within the range of tolerable limits for the assembly. So by only loosening the bolts as described, there is no possibility of overtightening.

Last edited by rundog; 11-14-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCard View Post
Holy shit....

If there isn't enough slack in the chain for the spring to exert enough pressure against the pawl/rachet mechanism to move another "click" then no adjustment is needed. Loosening the CCT to get another "click" out of it is FORCING it to the next adjustment.
No, when there is enough slack in the chain to allow the pawl to move to the next stop, sometimes it just doesn't. That is the shortcoming of the design, and always has been. This is how you overcome that design defect.
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel View Post
^ They do eventually stretch enough that they need replacing just like the rear chain, at least from what I've heard. Hitman, have you tried switching to a manual cam chain tensioner first?

And yeah, I'd definitely expect it to be over 500 at a decent shop, it requires head disassembly and then removal, and while it might not be 100% necessary, most places (and myself as well) would remove the engine from the bike.
No I haven't tried switching to a manual tensioner.... yes it is the ticking sound, which didn't bother me but then my timing was all off. You guys are great I have real valuable information from this thread.... the bike has only done 16k miles
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rundog View Post
Man....after further reading on these things....why does everyone make it sound like everything on these bikes is under engineered? Do a little research on the part, and everyone says they break all the time, or fall short on adjusting, or OEM are junk and go bad....then others say manual are a PITA and are easily done wrong.....

If all these parts on these bikes are so under engineered, why did Kawasaki use them in a production bike? I would think these breaking could pose a safety issue to the rider when the motor locks up from it popping...

It cracks me up to read stuff like this. Tires, I'm sure preference is one thing, but they made the 200 series for the 12R, for a good reason, and even advise against using a different tire, but folks like to use smaller tires....cool, but I see stuff all over the web saying the 200 is junk and this and that....too funny.

Or the whole swing arm debate. These bikes were made to go like a bat outta hell in a straight line, and still kinda handle some twisties, yet folks like to change them out with other swing arms....very odd...another preference, but I see the same...about how junky they are...

I just find it so odd how internet experts always proclaim that all these things that were engineered by brains much bigger than most of ours and many more of them, are sub-standard. I find this bike handles quite well considering it's size, with the stock forks, swing arm, ride height and everything.

From what I read, it's most likely the tensioner is like rundog said, just in between clicks, but when you read up on these things, all you get is how junky OEM parts are....Yeah, if you race the bike on the reg, I can see modifying the bike, but for street use, I would think this missile is well designed to dispatch most things with ease.

Kawasaki didn't just slap these things together. They put time and engineering into them, otherwise they'd be like $500 a pop. I use all OEM parts, and leave the bike stock length, height, and all that jazz, cause they made it awesome just the way it is. It's all fine and good to bolt on stuff for increases, but to boldly state that OEM parts are no good, well, is just silly.
People think bikes were designed poorly because in this day and age, if you have a problem and say, 20 other people have the same problem, you may see ten or 15 forums threads on Google concerning this problem. That looks widespread because it's all on page one of Google when in reality, it's an extremely small percentage of the population.

When I had my 250R, the tach went on it (it was covered under warranty). Googling it, you can see how people say it's common and they're piece-of-shit bikes because it's widespread on the Internet.

They know what they're doing when they design a bike. There are always a few small problems like that oil leak problem on the 07-08 ZX6R's, but a solution is out in a few months. I don't understand why people are afraid of getting their 250's up to speed because the RPM's are so high. It was designed to operate like that. It's not going to blow up. Then you have others changing their oil at 1,000-3,000 miles for normal street use; the manual say 7,500 increments. Follow it.

-Will

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