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Old 11-15-2012, 01:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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No, when there is enough slack in the chain to allow the pawl to move to the next stop, sometimes it just doesn't. That is the shortcoming of the design, and always has been. This is how you overcome that design defect.
It's not meant to be adjusted. I'm the one av8r was referring to who over-tightened it and had the bike sputtering out on me. Thankfully, GTS walked me through how to undo my fuck up before it caused any irreparable damage. I adjusted the factory CCT a good 10 times prior to that without a problem, one time too tight and your motor could be royally fucked. The cams can get pulled down into the head from the cam chain being too tight. If you really want to overcome the design defect, go to Lowes or Home Depot, get a spring kit and replace the spring inside the factory CCT with a stiffer one so it will have the necessary tension to move the plunger and ratchet the tensioner to the next setting, the way it's meant to function. Otherwise, i'd recommend a manual tensioner. Bikes would probably come with manual tensioners from the factory if your average person could be trusted to adjust it properly.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:47 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't know what happened with your bike, BP, but it certainly didn't happen as a result as a result of following this procedure, did it? As I've explained, by loosening the bolts as prescribed, it's not possible to overtighten the cam chain. But by loosening the bolts past the recommended amount, or removing the tensioner completely, and in either circumstance allowing the spring to extend the pawl before the tensioner is bolted down, overtightening and the results you describe would not only be possible but likely.

To me, there is no argument that's going to outweigh all those engines, and all those miles. Talk is cool, but it can't take the place of what I've seen for years and am seeing now with my current bike.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:20 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Hey guys so yes it was the tensioner, and yes the auto tensioner works just fine. May have that ticking sound but my bike has had no issues resulting from the ticking.... until the ticking was so prominent that it overtook the engine note and the timing seemed all screwed, of course that meant the bike ran like shit.... As this is the first time this has happened and the bike has an excellent running record I took it to my mechanic... so that I can leave it up to the experts... yes it was all done professionally cost me almost $400.00AUD and it rides and sounds like a dream. I Understand the manual tensioner could be a way to eliminate this if one knew how to precisely adjust the tension but again I took the advice of the many who said these bikes are engineered for a reason and unless we know them inside out it is best, I ride hard and get someone to do the hard work to keep it riding hard.... a few extra shifts @ work, I guess will pay off the repairs & new front tyre thank you all!! :-)

Last edited by hitmanninja; 11-15-2012 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:11 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I don't know what happened with your bike, BP, but it certainly didn't happen as a result as a result of following this procedure, did it? As I've explained, by loosening the bolts as prescribed, it's not possible to overtighten the cam chain. But by loosening the bolts past the recommended amount, or removing the tensioner completely, and in either circumstance allowing the spring to extend the pawl before the tensioner is bolted down, overtightening and the results you describe would not only be possible but likely.

To me, there is no argument that's going to outweigh all those engines, and all those miles. Talk is cool, but it can't take the place of what I've seen for years and am seeing now with my current bike.
I did use the method you described minus the bumping the starter part.
I live right next to a main road so I can't hear the tensioner click when it hits the next setting. I have to kind of go on faith and hope it hit the next tooth. In my case, it went way too fucking far. When I started the bike, it revved to like 3k rpm on its own and then settled back at 1300. I took it for a quick spin and could hear a whirring sound, so I started to head back home and then the bike started to die out on me when I would come to a complete stop. Got it home, posted on KF about it and OMR and GTS helped me out. I had to take the bike apart down to the throttle bodies, remove the tensioner, disassemble it, reset the plunger, reassemble it, reinstall it, remove the spark plugs from the bike, take the timing cover off, turn the motor over by hand and then put everything back together. Have I successfully done it your way before? Yes. But I recommend leaving the factory CCT alone or getting a manual one. A little drivetrain noise is normal and the OEM tensioner is not really designed to be tightened the way you describe.


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Old 11-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I Understand the manual tensioner could be a way to eliminate this if one knew how to precisely adjust the tension but again I took the advice of the many who said these bikes are engineered for a reason and unless we know them inside out it is best
The manual one is not hard to adjust. Literally finger tighten till you get any resistence then back off a little. If you start it and it whirs its too tight and if it clicks really loud its too loose. It is very very simple.

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Old 11-17-2012, 10:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Hey guys so yes it was the tensioner, and yes the auto tensioner works just fine. May have that ticking sound but my bike has had no issues resulting from the ticking.... until the ticking was so prominent that it overtook the engine note and the timing seemed all screwed, of course that meant the bike ran like shit.... As this is the first time this has happened and the bike has an excellent running record I took it to my mechanic... so that I can leave it up to the experts... yes it was all done professionally cost me almost $400.00AUD and it rides and sounds like a dream. I Understand the manual tensioner could be a way to eliminate this if one knew how to precisely adjust the tension but again I took the advice of the many who said these bikes are engineered for a reason and unless we know them inside out it is best, I ride hard and get someone to do the hard work to keep it riding hard.... a few extra shifts @ work, I guess will pay off the repairs & new front tyre thank you all!! :-)
The only thing that matters is you getting your bike right......

BP, I can't say what happened with your bike, I wasn't there. I only know what has happened with my bikes and what others have reported. That's my experience that I'm sharing, and you're sharing yours. Everyone should choose the option they are most comfortable with.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:43 PM   #27 (permalink)
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BP, I can't say what happened with your bike, I wasn't there. I only know what has happened with my bikes and what others have reported. That's my experience that I'm sharing, and you're sharing yours. Everyone should choose the option they are most comfortable with.
I suppose, but to say "it's not possible to over-tighten the cam chain using the method you describe" isn't entirely accurate and can be somewhat irresponsible advice to give to someone.

To me, these statements:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rundog View Post
...but to boldly state that OEM parts are no good, well, is just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rundog View Post
That is the shortcoming of the design, and always has been. This is how you overcome that design defect.
are conradictory. I mean, if the OEM cam chain tensioner worked as well as it was supposed to there wouldn't even need to be a "CCT Fix" to debate over.

and these kind of contradict each other as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rundog View Post
...in either circumstance allowing the spring to extend the pawl before the tensioner is bolted down, overtightening and the results you describe would not only be possible but likely.
Quote:
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So by only loosening the bolts as described, there is no possibility of overtightening.
Unless i'm misunderstanding something, which is entirely possible. This is the method I used to use: How to: adjust the factory CCT on a 636
are we talking about the same thing? I think the discrepancy might be at step 3 of both methods. Do you allow the CCT to come loose from the bike? I don't see any other way to make the fix work. If you go too far, it absolutely can over-tighten the chain and if you don't back it out far enough, you just hooked up 47 ratchet extensions and pivotal sockets for no reason.
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Last edited by BP; 11-17-2012 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:56 AM   #28 (permalink)
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You're getting yourself lost in semantics, BP. The method works. Period. There are multiple engines with thousands of miles and multiple people who have done it successfully. And then there is you. You start off by admitting that you did not follow the instructions precisely. You undoubtedly missed more than just not bumping the engine.

I'm going to explain it to you one more time, and that's it. If you loosen the bolts by a quarter to a third of a turn, the pawl can only move one stop. If the pawl only moves one stop, you cannot overtighten the cam chain by retightening the bolts. If you loosen them more, or remove the tensioner, and then reinstall it incorrectly you can overtighten the chain. You undoubtedly did one of those two things. And then had no clue by the sounds or vibrations that your engine was destroying itself, until the damage was done. How's that?

If you still do not understand why it is not possible to overtighten the tensioner by tightening those bolts one third of a turn, well I guess I'm just going to have to live with that. While riding my bike that does not have a destroyed head. Just like everyone else who has done this. Except you.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:04 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Shouldn't be done. End of story.

You're not looking at the long run. Doing that increases, unnecessarily, the tension on the chain. This leads to premature wear of the chain and the cam and crank sprockets as well as the guides. There's nothing wrong with it ticking a bit. Every chain driven DOHC sportbike makes a tick. Leave it alone.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:09 AM   #30 (permalink)
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You're getting yourself lost in semantics, BP. The method works. Period. There are multiple engines with thousands of miles and multiple people who have done it successfully. And then there is you. You start off by admitting that you did not follow the instructions precisely. You undoubtedly missed more than just not bumping the engine.

I'm going to explain it to you one more time, and that's it. If you loosen the bolts by a quarter to a third of a turn, the pawl can only move one stop. If the pawl only moves one stop, you cannot overtighten the cam chain by retightening the bolts. If you loosen them more, or remove the tensioner, and then reinstall it incorrectly you can overtighten the chain. You undoubtedly did one of those two things. And then had no clue by the sounds or vibrations that your engine was destroying itself, until the damage was done. How's that?

If you still do not understand why it is not possible to overtighten the tensioner by tightening those bolts one third of a turn, well I guess I'm just going to have to live with that. While riding my bike that does not have a destroyed head. Just like everyone else who has done this. Except you.
Cool, and i'll continue to ride my bike without a destroyed head as well. This happened to me over 2 years ago and was rectified without issue. I still have the same bike, same motor. I don't know why you're getting so pissy when all i was trying to do was verify that we were using the same method. You have to back the tensioner away from where it's mounted on the bike to make it ratchet to the next setting. To say it's not possible to go too far is just incorrect. Like I said, I've done the CCT "fix" a good number of times without issue. I goofed once, recognized the possible repercussions and decided to shell out $40 on a manual CCT and be done with it. Your method isn't even right anyway, 1/3-1/4 of a turn won't do shit. It's going to require at least 2 full revolutions on the mounting screws to get it backed out far enough to ratchet to the next setting, and even then you don't know if it hits the next setting unless you can hear the CCT "click" to indicate that it actually moved. This was where my mistake was, I didn't hear it due to ambient noise levels where I live and backed it out too far. I guess i'm just a noob.
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