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Old 11-21-2012, 08:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
proof?
-Cody
I've seen a lot of studies on this for cars. Don't have any links handy but every test I've seen shows that, if done correctly, non-abs stops in a shorter distance

FACT:
ABS was not developed to help you stop sooner. It was designed to allow you to steer and brake hard in a panic situation without having to worry about locking the wheels AND steering. Because if your wheels lock up your steering wheel is only useful to smash your face on upon impact...

As far as bikes go, The same should apply. As soon as you lock your front wheel it won't steer... Same with your rear wheel but that's not so bad because it won't send you high side... As easily anyhow.

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Originally Posted by WildCard View Post
Lets find everything that makes motorcycling great and get rid of it.....
Because locking up the front wheel in a panic is one of those things every rider cherishes...
Like stated above... Don't want it... Pull fuse... Done.



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Old 11-21-2012, 08:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Because locking up the front wheel in a panic is one of those things every rider cherishes...
Like stated above... Don't want it... Pull fuse... Done.

So when i get done pulling the fuse the added weight and electronic complication are just going to disappear in a puff of smoke along with a check from the manufacturer refunding my $600-1000 extra that the bike cost me to be equippped with that BS from the factory ?

I don't ride motorcycles cause its easy or safe.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ianshort09 View Post
I've seen a lot of studies on this for cars. Don't have any links handy but every test I've seen shows that, if done correctly, non-abs stops in a shorter distance
Cars dont automatically wreck when you lock the front either like a bike does, 9 times out of 10.

I've seen one video of comparison in stopping in the wet on motorcycles and ABS won. The other 'crashed' (it basically had training wheels) trying to do the same.

The ABS on motorcycles gives data on something like 100x/second. If you can think that fast, more power to you.
-Cody
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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And here's a video...they stopped better with the ABS everytime
-Cody
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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That's the video I was looking for. Yes in cars you can usually stop sooner in a straight line without ABS, but you cannot steer nearly as well and the panic can still make you easily lock up your wheels. Bikes are a whole other story. I like bikes that have ABS, but don't think it should be mandatory.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:33 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
proof?
-Cody
Read any review of any bike at the track. ABS kicks in before max braking is achieved. And it confuses itself and fires up when hard on the brakes over rolling bumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
Cars dont automatically wreck when you lock the front either like a bike does, 9 times out of 10.

I've seen one video of comparison in stopping in the wet on motorcycles and ABS won. The other 'crashed' (it basically had training wheels) trying to do the same.

The ABS on motorcycles gives data on something like 100x/second. If you can think that fast, more power to you.
-Cody
It also has to operate at a MUCH greater margin of safety than a good rider is capable of maintaining. It's overly intrusive simply because people will rely on it... and on a two wheeled vehicle that means it has to be safe beyond safe.

You can't achieve maximum braking with ABS.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I do wish people would stop rabbiting on about the track when we're talking about something meant for the street. I've never activated the ABS except to test it. If you're clumsy enough to activate it, you probably need it.

If you're using your brakes on the street to the point where you're outbreaking the ABS (and most of the time, in less than perfect conditions on a less than perfect surface you can't, whatever you might wrongly think), then you're already three quarters crashed if there's traffic around.

The extra weight is a couple of KG, set low in front of the swinging arm where it has negligeable effect on anything. With the fuse pulled the entire system is by-passed, apart from the extra length of the brake lines. I don't like having to pay for things I don't want, but I'm ambivalent about ABS - it's a useful insurance policy for when you screw up.

I don't understand the comments about margin of safety. Most systems only operate when there's a measurable discrepancy between front and rear wheel speeds. If you're braking and there is such a discrepancy you're doing it wrong. If you're deliberately overbraking the rear to slide it then you may have a problem, but that isn't a good idea on the street.

I have seen a couple of systems on scooters in conjunction with linked brakes where there's a measure of servo assistance as well as the ABS, and the components of the system can't be separated. I'd avoid anything like that.

If I can ask a question of these track riders - if you're so good, why aren't you winning GPs?

Rob
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
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If I can ask a question of these track riders - if you're so good, why aren't you winning GPs?

Rob
If you're so concerned about personal injury and having all these backup and redundant safety systems to pull your ass out of the fire if you over-ride your skill set why do you ride a motorcycle or advocate the sport at alll ?
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:22 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't see much of a problem. By 2016 they will have continued to refine their systems and 99.9 percent of riders wont be able to outbrake it in the best conditions. Its not like they aren't pouring millions into rnd on these systems with hours of test riding them. And as far as the couple kilos it's not like most people don't have 4-5 pounds they could lose if they really wanted too if they are that concerned about it.

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Old 11-22-2012, 01:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't see much of a problem. By 2016 they will have continued to refine their systems and 99.9 percent of riders wont be able to outbrake it in the best conditions. Its not like they aren't pouring millions into rnd on these systems with hours of test riding them. And as far as the couple kilos it's not like most people don't have 4-5 pounds they could lose if they really wanted too if they are that concerned about it.

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