ABS mandatory on bikes starting in 2016 in Europe - Page 4 - KawiForums - Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums
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post #31 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Yourworstnightmare View Post
My bike doesn't have ABS, and I have panic stopped plenty of times without it. However, in the wet, and on the sandy roads down here in Vegas, It'd be nice to have some times when street riding.
My point of view exactly. Except if you panic stop a lot you need to work on your defensive riding and positioning.

Wildcard - I might have confused your argument with someone elses. Cost is a valid argument. I'm happy to pay to provide extra safety for less skilled riders, but I can afford to. How much we balance mandatory safety improvements with the cost is not something I'm comfortable arguing. I will say that it will do none of us any good if we price motorcycling out of reach of most people. It used to be a cheap alternative to a car. It still is if you stay with the under 650 cc bikes that we all used to ride. You could argue that it should only be fitted to bigger bikes where the owners are more likely to manage the cost, but that's taking it away from the riders most likely to need it.

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post #32 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by williamr View Post
My point of view exactly. Except if you panic stop a lot you need to work on your defensive riding and positioning.

Wildcard - I might have confused your argument with someone elses. Cost is a valid argument. I'm happy to pay to provide extra safety for less skilled riders, but I can afford to. How much we balance mandatory safety improvements with the cost is not something I'm comfortable arguing. I will say that it will do none of us any good if we price motorcycling out of reach of most people. It used to be a cheap alternative to a car. It still is if you stay with the under 650 cc bikes that we all used to ride. You could argue that it should only be fitted to bigger bikes where the owners are more likely to manage the cost, but that's taking it away from the riders most likely to need it.

Rob
hah, yeah, you'd think that here in Montreal, Qc, they would make motorcycling more accessible, considering the massive traffic problem we have here, let alone environmental factors etc. But they have done the reverse, making motorcycling so expensive (the process of getting your license tedious and costly, waiting time to take exams and to get final license is ridiculous, the taxes and licensing fees ridiculous) that it has become inaccessible to most here, and is more of a luxury. A shame really, but that is the least of our worries here when it comes to the government...just look at our roads.
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post #33 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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Bboy I don't like the prohibative cost or taxes. But I wouldn't mind people having to be better riders to get a license.

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post #34 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 03:45 PM
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Bboy I don't like the prohibative cost or taxes. But I wouldn't mind people having to be better riders to get a license.

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I'm not talking about the training required to become a better rider, that's totally fine. Accidents have already gone down in the past 4-5 years since they changed the laws concerning mandatory courses etc to get your license. I'm referring to the high costs associated in doing so, the long waiting periods to do the exams (probably due to poor organization) and the mandatory 11-months you have to wait between learner license and full license so you can ride on your own (it was previously 7 months whihc made perfect sense, 11 months is excessive)
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post #35 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 01:11 AM
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I hate the goverment getting involved in anything I enjoy, Got tired of everything going to hell. Shit half the stuff my girlfriend do in the bedroom is illegal in the state we live in, and let me tell you in Alabama pretty much anything besides missionary position is considered "A crime aganst nature"..

That being said hopefully if its mandated the cost won't be too bad, and given that it may lessen the number of accidents a lot of new riders have, and more experienced riders who push it too hard on the street, and the odd puddle of oil or antifreeze that may cause a drop at a stoplight hopefully it could lower insurance rates and we recoup some of the cost back.

I know its a hinderance to track riders, but as stated above, pull a fuse, remove the pumps, install some braided lines from the MC to the caliper and boom you're done, and as far as the ABS system being integrated into the bikes electronics, and possibly setting a "FI" type light or something? Well, Theres a servo buddy that gets around removing the exhaust servo now isn't there? So I'm sure someone will figure out how to simulate the ABS electronics to fix that little problem if it becomes an issue.

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post #36 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:39 PM
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I am still opposed to it on the race track, in the same way I am opposed to all electronic rider aids like traction control, wheelie control, launch control, etc.

It does make a lot of sense on the street, though. I would be lying if I said I never crashed on the brakes as a newbie.


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post #37 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 03:26 PM
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There will always be a way to disable it :P
This

Doing that will usually disable the traction control also which is nice


MotoPG is coming out with anti wheelie crap also. Wait until that hits the market. People will be pissed.

Let me ride the bike not the computer. I dont even like how the new liters, like the R1 for example, have different power modes. I'de just leave it in A mode all the time, even if it was raining.

Skill > ABS. A few of us including myself can break down why proper threshold breaking will stop you faster then just slamming the brakes on an ABS system, but I dont think I want to bother.

The problem is that most people dont have the skill to get good at it. I say screw those people and let them drive cars.

I still lock my rear up sometimes because it really is hard to do, but I know how to handle a skidding tire and its actually fun. When ABS becomes standard and no one knows what to do when the tire locks up anymore, people will die when the ABS fails, or if it activates on gravel.

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post #38 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacinJason44 View Post
I am still opposed to it on the race track, in the same way I am opposed to all electronic rider aids like traction control, wheelie control, launch control, etc.

It does make a lot of sense on the street, though. I would be lying if I said I never crashed on the brakes as a newbie.
I agree. I'm still on the fence about whether quick shifters should be allowed, but at least you're still making the shift. But I digress, as the R&D wouldn't be there if it wasn't for those racers using it on the track.





And actually, I was mistaken. The guy I know that rode his BMW S1000RR did de-activate the ABS because it made the front end chatter.

But I still say 98% of riders can't outbrake an ABS-controlled bike. The new zx10 monitors braking 200x / second. Sorry dude, you can't think faster than a computer....and they're only going to get better.
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post #39 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weebel View Post
This

Doing that will usually disable the traction control also which is nice


MotoPG is coming out with anti wheelie crap also. Wait until that hits the market. People will be pissed.

Let me ride the bike not the computer. I dont even like how the new liters, like the R1 for example, have different power modes. I'de just leave it in A mode all the time, even if it was raining.

Skill > ABS. A few of us including myself can break down why proper threshold breaking will stop you faster then just slamming the brakes on an ABS system, but I dont think I want to bother.

The problem is that most people dont have the skill to get good at it. I say screw those people and let them drive cars.

I still lock my rear up sometimes because it really is hard to do, but I know how to handle a skidding tire and its actually fun. When ABS becomes standard and no one knows what to do when the tire locks up anymore, people will die when the ABS fails, or if it activates on gravel.
Wow dude. Moto GP and other top series have had wheelie control for a long time. Some of the guys I race with have aftermarket launch control, wheelie control, etc. some of the new European bikes already come with that stock. Are you posting from 2004?


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post #40 of 75 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 07:30 PM
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I dont follow it that much, the last video I saw they where talking about it coming out so it may have very well been from 2004. I'm just saying that I wont be surprised when we start seeing wheelie control systems on bikes sitting at the dealership. They are putting ABS and traction control on street bikes already, wheelie control is the next logical step. I dont want any of it but I'm willing to bet that no one will want there computer keeping there 10R from lifting the front end off the ground.

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