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Old 11-24-2012, 11:44 PM   #41 (permalink)
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The new zx10 and bmw s1000rr already have wheelie control...
-Cody
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:11 AM   #42 (permalink)
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As do the Ducati Panigale, the Aprilia RSV4, the Tuono, etc.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:52 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by williamr View Post
My point of view exactly. Except if you panic stop a lot you need to work on your defensive riding and positioning.

Wildcard - I might have confused your argument with someone elses. Cost is a valid argument. I'm happy to pay to provide extra safety for less skilled riders, but I can afford to. How much we balance mandatory safety improvements with the cost is not something I'm comfortable arguing. I will say that it will do none of us any good if we price motorcycling out of reach of most people. It used to be a cheap alternative to a car. It still is if you stay with the under 650 cc bikes that we all used to ride. You could argue that it should only be fitted to bigger bikes where the owners are more likely to manage the cost, but that's taking it away from the riders most likely to need it.

Rob
I totally understand where you're coming from.

I didn't mean to sound like I panic stop on the regular. I guess you'd just have to ride Las Vegas frequently (like I do, I commute on my bike daily) to understand. Drivers out here are the absolute worst you'd ever experience in your life. If they're not drunk, they're lost. If they're not lost they're on their cell phone yapping and cutting across all 5 lanes of traffic to make the exit. If they're not doing that they're slamming on their brakes for no good reason because a car 3 lanes over slammed on it's brakes for no good reason.

It's insane.

I do ride (and drive) very defensively, as well.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:43 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I dont get the bitching

"Regular brakes stop faster" = ego

"ABS sucks on the track" = who is buying a brand new bike to do track days with??? And if you are, why wouldn't you want the added insurance of ABS, as even w/insurance you'd prob be paying to fix the bike out of pocket?

"Cost cost cost"= $500 on a $5000, $7000, $10000 purchase is nothing, so if that $500 will break you you couldn't afford it in the first place. Plus in any case there are plenty of non-ABS used bikes for way less than even a new Ninja 300

Americans are incredibly stupid and obstinate when it comes to so many things that make sense, including safety. I would bet the same folks decrying ABS wear some kind of gear every time they ride. What is wrong with ABS on a street bike? I agree that folks should train to brake more, you have to be pretty hamfisted to lock the front tire, at least in a straight line... but ABS is good money
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:08 AM   #45 (permalink)
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You might be surprised how many people buy brand new bikes to race.


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Old 11-26-2012, 11:24 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacinJason44 View Post
You might be surprised how many people buy brand new bikes to race.
i would say its a drop in the bucket compared to all new bike sales
-Cody
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:27 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RacinJason44 View Post
You might be surprised how many people buy brand new bikes to race.


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I would bet those folks

- value + exploit ABS
- are capable of pulling a fuse
- make up <1% of new bike sales

I mean if one's personal preference is not to have ABS thats one thing. But there is no rational argument against it or any other safety control device on a street bike. Single vehicle car accidents have gone way down since the implementation of ABS and traction control. I would love to have both on my bike.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:31 AM   #48 (permalink)
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The BMW's and 10R's already have it? thats sad.

If I where to buy a new 10R you can bet your ass I would know how to disable it before I even went to look at one. Whats the point of having a 10R if you never power wheelie lol.

Sporty, the argument is that some of us like having bikes that will put us on our ass if you push it to hard. It makes riding fun. I don't want a bike to do anything I don't tell it to, or not do something I tell it to. If I tell it to point the headlight to the sky or lock up the back tire and damn it I want it to do it. I like knowing that I have to let off the gas when I go over the paint in a crosswalk.

Would you buy a Camaro that you could not turn the traction control off on? Its the same thing.

You are having computerized crap do something for you that you should already know how to do yourself. We live in an age of not having to have any skill because everything is done for you, that is not a good thing.

Since they started putting automatics in semi trucks, all kinds of problems have been happening for the same reason. Its ridiculous. If you are behind the wheel of something that big you should know how to shift an unsynchronized 15 speed already.

I'm OK with FI on sport bikes for performance reasons. But there is a reason I drive an old 78 pickup truck most the time. There are no electronics or emissions of any kind keeping that truck from running, I like the fact that half the people on the planet can not start it when its cold.

This is just the start, we already have cars that will let off the gas if you are following to close FFS. Learn to operate what you are driving or riding, if you do not have the skill to ride a "raw" bike, you have no business being on one.

As for ABS, sport bikes can already loop if you break to hard, does the ABS keep that from happening? The rear not locking up doesnt mean dick is its off the ground.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weebel View Post
The BMW's and 10R's already have it? thats sad.

If I where to buy a new 10R you can bet your ass I would know how to disable it before I even went to look at one. Whats the point of having a 10R if you never power wheelie lol.

Sporty, the argument is that some of us like having bikes that will put us on our ass if you push it to hard. It makes riding fun. I don't want a bike to do anything I don't tell it to, or not do something I tell it to. If I tell it to point the headlight to the sky or lock up the back tire and damn it I want it to do it. I like knowing that I have to let off the gas when I go over the paint in a crosswalk.

Would you buy a Camaro that you could not turn the traction control off on? Its the same thing.

You are having computerized crap do something for you that you should already know how to do yourself. We live in an age of not having to have any skill because everything is done for you, that is not a good thing.

Since they started putting automatics in semi trucks, all kinds of problems have been happening for the same reason. Its ridiculous. If you are behind the wheel of something that big you should know how to shift an unsynchronized 15 speed already.

I'm OK with FI on sport bikes for performance reasons. But there is a reason I drive an old 78 pickup truck most the time. There are no electronics or emissions of any kind keeping that truck from running, I like the fact that half the people on the planet can not start it when its cold.

This is just the start, we already have cars that will let off the gas if you are following to close FFS. Learn to operate what you are driving or riding, if you do not have the skill to ride a "raw" bike, you have no business being on one.

As for ABS, sport bikes can already loop if you break to hard, does the ABS keep that from happening? The rear not locking up doesnt mean dick is its off the ground.
weebel weebel weebel know things before you form opinions on them




You can turn the shit off

And please explain a scenario in which you would like to lock up the front tire... when is that ever desirable

Like I said this anti-safety stuff is pure ego. "I WANT to crash if I get in over my head" Like you can't wreck a bike w/ABS + traction control








And like I said if having a bike that won't lock up the front under panic braking is too much for your ego to stand you can buy an old bike that doesn't have it

I understand wanting to seek thrills and push the limits but there's a difference between doing that and just taking on risk you don't have to. Locking up the front in a panic stop or high siding a bike is not "fun" or "good risk", its just stupid

My next bike will have ABS if I can afford it
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:38 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sportyaccordy View Post
I dont get the bitching

"Regular brakes stop faster" = ego

"ABS sucks on the track" = who is buying a brand new bike to do track days with??? And if you are, why wouldn't you want the added insurance of ABS, as even w/insurance you'd prob be paying to fix the bike out of pocket?

"Cost cost cost"= $500 on a $5000, $7000, $10000 purchase is nothing, so if that $500 will break you you couldn't afford it in the first place. Plus in any case there are plenty of non-ABS used bikes for way less than even a new Ninja 300

Americans are incredibly stupid and obstinate when it comes to so many things that make sense, including safety. I would bet the same folks decrying ABS wear some kind of gear every time they ride. What is wrong with ABS on a street bike? I agree that folks should train to brake more, you have to be pretty hamfisted to lock the front tire, at least in a straight line... but ABS is good money
Motorcycling in itself does not make sense nor is it safe. I wear almost full gear everytime i ride (sometimes just jeans instead of ballistic pants) BECAUSE RIDING IS NOT SAFE.

In all of my years of riding i can count the number if times i had to panic stop on one hand (knock on wood) so in my mind ABS is way down the list of things that i need to be safer on a motorcycle. Now if you count the number of times i've had to dodge cars almost running into the back of me, running me over and merging into my lane that becomes a much more significant thing.

When they can come up with some kind of "anti douchebag cock gobbling moron cage driver on a cell phone" system i will glady pay an extra $500-1000 dollars for that.

And you must be made of money if you can seriously say that $500 extra for nothing you will use is not significant, i could use that money for a new helmet, jacket, gloves, etc. rather than piss it away on some electric dick fondler that i'm just going to remove the fuse out of anyway.
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