Venom, you misunderstood my post. I only meant that if you had 2 boneheads working at the same company, that, that wasn't too good of odds. Not hating on you personally. Just riffing on the fact that you said 2 new riders didn't listen to your pretty good advice.
no hate here. as for Darwin, I've been riding two yrs and haven't been down yet. as for friends and acquintanences that ride, I'd say 50% have crashed in the last two yrs, not a hard stat mind you, but about that. I have a friend, we've been riding the same about of time, although he has 20k miles and I have 12-13k miles, he's on his 4th bike, 4 crashes, and a new hip.