ZZR600 stall without choke after seafoam and jet cleaning : KawiForums.com Kawasaki Forums: Kawasaki motorcycle forums
» Sponsors





» Insurance
Go Back   KawiForums - Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums > Super Sport > ZX-6R All Model Years
New User? Register - Forgot Password

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-25-2012, 03:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
Jr. Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9
NganSikLung has at least 10 rep points
Default ZZR600 stall without choke after seafoam and jet cleaning

Hey everyone, I am new to the site as well as carb'd motors haha - so I am hoping to find some help. I searched the threads but couldn't find anyone with a similar story so hear goes:

I recently picked up 2008 ZZR600 with ~4500 on the clock. It ran well and now has ~8700 miles on it. I changed the oil and filter (now running synthetic) and started to realize a bog at 8k-8.3k (before and after that range it pulls fine - not sure if it was there before or not but realized it a great deal after). The previous owner cut the stock pipe in half (said it was a common mod) and after some research I decided it could be a weird issue with the exhaust.

I rode it out though and started to realize it would only bog usually if it was anything other than WOT, so I decided that one of these mythical jets I kept reading about could be clogged. So I bought some Seafoam and ran it through the tank... well two two tanks... you know to make sure I got everything I could.

At first it was going well then by the time I got to the third tank (just fuel) it started running like crap. Weird low idle, stalling out, and difficult starts with copious amounts of choke. So, fearing fouled plugs or clogged jets, I jumped in to learning how to disassemble and clean the carbs.

I pulled out the plugs which looked ok, albeit a little dark around the tips (I don't think they were fouled?). I then pulled out the carbs and cleaned the main and idle jets (soaked them and blew compressed air through) but they were honestly immaculate looking. While I had the tank off I cleaned the air filter and blew some air through the fuel filter to to make sure there was no gunk in it.

I reassembled everything and on the first few attempt to turn it on, there was just afeeling click from the battery area and everything went dead... It did this a few more times and the it sprang to life and turned over (thank god). I ran it steady with the choke but when I went to let the choke out it died... it is super hard to start, needs gas and throttle and will die without throttle.

What could this be? I am now thinking I should have made sure more than just the jets were clear? Or that the plugs do in fact need to be changed or maybe even bad gas? (I freaked out when it was acting up on the their tank so I threw a splash of Seafoam in it to try and stabilize its condition before I took it apart. Also, it sat for a little over a week between when I last rode it and when i disassembled it because of vacation.

Sorry for the novel, I just wanted to relay as much information as possible. The 8k bog doesn't seem as bad anymore lol, but I guess this is how I learn.
NganSikLung is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-25-2012, 07:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
Proud A-hole
 
LarryJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chesapeake, VA '06 ZZR fighter, 05 VTX-1300
Posts: 15,110
LarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep points
Send a message via Skype™ to LarryJ
Default

I suggest changing the plugs, I do mine every 5-8000 miles. If I let them go too long the bike will sputter, but typically it's when first taking off from a light and then runs fine after.

When you dismantled the carbs and pulled the jets, did you hold each jet up to a light to see if they were in fact clear? What I do is strip the insulation off of a wire and use the copper to clean out those small passages in the jets. I soak everything (except rubber parts) in carb cleaner, clean with the copper wire, then blow air through everything.

One other suggestion is to remove the caps that hide the pilot mixture screws. There's one brass cap per carb. Drill a hole and thread in a small pointed screw into the cap. Grab the screw with some pliers and simply pull the plug. Just make sure you drill only a few millimeters deep otherwise you risk hitting the screw under the cap. Those screws are turned in way too far by the manufacturer to lean the bike out for emissions control. Three turns out from fully seated is a starting point for tuning the pilot circuit. I suggest about 3.5 turns. Having these screws set properly will make for easier starts and a better running bike up to maybe 1/8 throttle. In warmer weather you won't even need the choke at all to start the bike if you have them set just right, but even just a little choke to get her started then flip it off after a minute or so is still good. Search the forum for the pilot mixture screw cap removal and adjustment. There are some threads with pictures and everything. It's really a simple task, especially if you feel comfortable with pulling and dismantling the carbs.

Finally it's necessary to sync or balance your carbs. Over time the butterflies will be out of sync from carb to carb and will need to be put back. This requires the use of a fluid filled vacuum tool and a bit more effort than the above tasks, but it's not incredibly difficult. More time consuming than anything. There are a few threads here on how to do it and also some videos on YouTube. I got my gauge for $90 from Motion Pro. It'll work on carb and F.I. bikes, 2 and 4 cylinders.

Good luck. Hope this helps. These ZZR's and older carb'd bikes can be a little finiky sometimes, but I've had my ZZR (fighter) for 7 years and 46,000 miles without any break downs or major maintenance (valve adjustments have been the only "major" maintenance). No corrective maintenance yet, just periodic stuff. Still on the stock clutch, stock fuel pump, stock fuel filter, etc. She just works.
__________________
Most violated KF rule: 2. - Post titles should be descriptive of the contents of your post. i.e. "Help with fuel injectors" instead of "HELP!!!!"



Last edited by LarryJ; 12-25-2012 at 07:25 AM.
LarryJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 11:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
Jr. Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9
NganSikLung has at least 10 rep points
Default

Thank you for the response! I will definitely change out the plugs as soon as I can get them ordered (I am hoping the bike shop has them in stock though since autozone didn't). when I cleaned the jets I did make sure to see if I saw two round light holes at the bottom (which I was praying were going to be gunked up and the solution to my problem). As far as the syncing and pilot screw adjustment goes, I will definitely look in to that! And that's awesome to hear that yours has lasted so long! Makes me feel like a crappy bike owner since it looks like I broke mine lol.

Last edited by NganSikLung; 12-25-2012 at 11:41 AM.
NganSikLung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 12:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
Proud A-hole
 
LarryJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chesapeake, VA '06 ZZR fighter, 05 VTX-1300
Posts: 15,110
LarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep points
Send a message via Skype™ to LarryJ
Default

You'll get your bike figured out soon enough. Worst case you can get a used set of carbs for like $100 off of ebay, or maybe from another member here (there's a ZZR parts bike for sale in the classifieds here--not sure what he has left).

Check other auto parts stores for the plugs also. I was pleasantly surprised to find mine at Advance Auto near my place. Have them search for CR9E plugs rather than the motorcycle make and model. That may help. Dealers will charge you like $5 each for the damn things.
__________________
Most violated KF rule: 2. - Post titles should be descriptive of the contents of your post. i.e. "Help with fuel injectors" instead of "HELP!!!!"


LarryJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 03:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
Intermediate Member
 
Jeff in Kentucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,381
Jeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep points
Default

If the jets are clogged, it usually will not idle, or there is a big loss of power just above idle.

Other than trying new spark plugs, for a flat spot only at 8,000 rpm my guess is that the exhaust changes already done require a rejet.

Dynojet, Factory Pro, Ivans and Dial-a-Jet make jet kits. It will be easier to use an aftermarket slip-on muffler and that company's recommended jetting changes for their exhaust and any air filter changes, or going back to a stock muffler that is not modified.

It usually takes a lot of experimentation to get the jetting right for a modified exhaust, especially if you use an aftermarket air filter that flows more air at the same time.

For suddenly worse running, it is often either bad fuel, bad spark plugs, or clogged carb jets.
__________________
“The fossil record is like life in the Army - long periods of boredom interrupted by short periods of terror.” by Prof Derek Ager ---“If you place a meter stick flat on a table top and slowly push it off the edge, the meter stick remains horizontal right up to the tipping point, whereupon it suddenly falls off the table.” by Teratornis

Last edited by Jeff in Kentucky; 12-25-2012 at 04:00 PM.
Jeff in Kentucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
Jr. Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9
NganSikLung has at least 10 rep points
Default

Thank you guys both for your responses, I really appreciate the help! I got her running today after throwing some new plugs in, draining the tank and carbs then refilling with fresh gas, and messing with the idle adjustment screw (which I think I messed with a little as I was taking it apart). But now it seems to be running strong - albeit a little sluggish. Fires on the first start which is awesome and I have a fuel filter inbound tomorrow to hopefully combat the slugishness? I am not sure if it is the cause, but there seems to be a slight delay when I hit the throttle now. I may be just imagining it though. I guess a fresh filter can't hurt.
NganSikLung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 06:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
Intermediate Member
 
Jeff in Kentucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,381
Jeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep points
Default

New fuel is an easy fix.

The best fix for some hesitation might be a jet kit, or going back to the stock exhaust.

A lower cost option is adjusting the pilot mixture screws further counterclockwise and buying some small washers to raise the jet needles. The main jets can be drilled out bigger for more fuel at full throttle, if needed.

The best way to check the jetting is with an exhaust gas thermometer, or a dyno measuring air-fuel ratios. For the street, people often just use their butt dyno (how well it takes off and speeds up), using the coolant temperature gauge- too lean gets too hot, and checking gas mileage- too lean is mileage too good, and too rich is mileage too low, for a similar amount of throttle use. I usually get about 50 miles per gallon with my stock jetting and stock intake and exhaust, so I know if it starts to change for the same type of riding something is wrong, maybe just a dirty air filter.

You are supposed to synch the carbs (synchronization) every 12,000 miles.

If the new fuel filter does not help, I would check the fuel pump.
__________________
“The fossil record is like life in the Army - long periods of boredom interrupted by short periods of terror.” by Prof Derek Ager ---“If you place a meter stick flat on a table top and slowly push it off the edge, the meter stick remains horizontal right up to the tipping point, whereupon it suddenly falls off the table.” by Teratornis
Jeff in Kentucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 12:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
Proud A-hole
 
LarryJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chesapeake, VA '06 ZZR fighter, 05 VTX-1300
Posts: 15,110
LarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep pointsLarryJ has between 60,000 and 70,000 rep points
Send a message via Skype™ to LarryJ
Default

Do not drill your jets. You are not going to drill all four of them exactly the same even if you use the same size bit and are very careful. Think about it. If you had a bike with a single carb, not four, then it might be something to consider. My VTX has one carb and I spent a whole $57 on a Factory Pro jet kit that came with four different main jets, bigger pilot jet, adjustable needle, and pilot screw adjuster (it's a weird D shaped thing). The point is, don't Jerry rig your shit. Jeff, please troll elsewhere.

Also fresh gas is rarely a fix. A bike with dirty and somewhat clogged jets WILL idle, Jeff. It won't be as smooth as you want, but it will idle (choke and pilot mixture screws are still a flow path). Also, Jeff, the pilot jets are the first to get clogged, in which case you'd have lacking power down low and full power up top as the main jets take over fuel delivery.


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com App
__________________
Most violated KF rule: 2. - Post titles should be descriptive of the contents of your post. i.e. "Help with fuel injectors" instead of "HELP!!!!"


LarryJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 11:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
Intermediate Member
 
Jeff in Kentucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,381
Jeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep pointsJeff in Kentucky has between 10,000 and 20,000 rep points
Default

Main jets are pretty cheap to buy new; the aftermarket jet needles based on hours of dyno testing are more expensive.

It is an old hot-rodding trick to drill out the main jets, and if it doesn't run right you can always replace them with new main jets. Also, a 4-cylinder engine often has different jetting for the hotter inner 2 cylinders, and a V-twin engine with 2 carbs often has different jetting for the hotter back cylinder:

Drilling Your Carburetor Jets to Change Size
__________________
“The fossil record is like life in the Army - long periods of boredom interrupted by short periods of terror.” by Prof Derek Ager ---“If you place a meter stick flat on a table top and slowly push it off the edge, the meter stick remains horizontal right up to the tipping point, whereupon it suddenly falls off the table.” by Teratornis
Jeff in Kentucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 11:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
Sev
The Indifference Engine
 
Sev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Posts: 5,475
Sev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep pointsSev has between 30,000 and 40,000 rep points
Send a message via ICQ to Sev Send a message via AIM to Sev Send a message via MSN to Sev
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Kentucky View Post
Main jets are pretty cheap to buy new; the aftermarket jet needles based on hours of dyno testing are more expensive.

It is an old hot-rodding trick to drill out the main jets, and if it doesn't run right you can always replace them with new main jets. Also, a 4-cylinder engine often has different jetting for the hotter inner 2 cylinders, and a V-twin engine with 2 carbs often has different jetting for the hotter back cylinder:

Drilling Your Carburetor Jets to Change Size
You drill them out because you don't have the $$ to buy new ones, because once upon a time they WERE expensive. Now a jet is less then $3... and he only needs to change 4...

That being said, it sounds like a vacuum leak... remember, you don't have a choke, you have an enrichner circuit, which dumps extra fuel into the carbs rather then restrict the amount of air going in. So if you have a vacuum leak (extra air) and add the choke the bike will run.
__________________
Of course I'm generalizing from a single example here, but everyone does that. At least I do.


Sev is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:12 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum