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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2004, 05:54 AM Thread Starter
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Oil Thread

When you buy your bike new, it couldn't hurt to change the oil as soon as 20-50 miles. During break-in, do not use synthetic oil or semi-synthetic oil. Personally, I would not use synthetic until the bike has 3,000-5,000 miles on it. Many of you would disagree but many of you also get your information from here and other forums filled with misinformation (not to say that it's *always* misinformation). How did I come up with the 3k-5k number? From Castrol and the Wiseco Piston Company. Break-in is the final "machining process", if you will, parts scrub against each other and undergo heat cycles to help them form and create seals. Anyway, synthetic oil may lengthen the process or prevent it altogether. At any rate, break-in is NOT over when the 1,500 miles or 1,000 miles are up. Once you hit those mileages it generally means you can start running the bike full power and up to redline but the bike has not completely broken in. Save the synthetic oil for later, it couldn't hurt and may save you a few bucks.

When you check the oil daily you should check it cold with the bike perpendicular to the ground. Simply stand to the side of the bike (where the oil window is), straighten the front wheel, balance it and squat down to look at the sight glass. It's a piece of cake. You want the oil level to be right between the low-level and high-level lines. A good rule of thumb is, if you're not sure about the right levels after changing or losing oil, it's better to be slightly under than slightly over.

Be sure to change your filter every single time you change the oil. You wouldn't take a shower and put your old underwear and socks back on, would you? I thought so.

When changing oil, add the recommended amount of oil as suggested by the manufacturer with a filter change. Start the engine and let it idle for a few minutes and shut it off. Check for leaks and then let it rest for several minutes - then check the oil level with the bike perpendicular to the ground... no rear stands. Adjust oil level accordingly.

In terms of what oil to use that is strictly up to you. However, be sure that the oil you are using meets or exceeds the ratings and requirements of the manufacturer. If you run the bike hard on the streets, a conventional oil or semi-synthetic oil may do just fine. If you race the bike or run it up to or near redline on every ride, or you want to extend your oil change intervals then a full synthetic may be worth your money. A good viscosity range is 10w-40 as it's suitable for most atmospheric conditions. Unless it's 100 degrees outside all the time I would not go as far as 20w-50 because when oil gets dirty it does thicken up. As far as friction modifiers and moly go, it may or may not affect the bike AT ALL. It really depends on the individual bike and the type of oil.

If you ride the bike infrequently, make short trips, and average 5k miles a year or less then I'd change the oil every 3-5 months. If you ride the bike very frequently and average 10k miles a year or more then 2,500-3,000 mile intervals are good and you can go a few hundred miles more on synthetic oil.

In the end, I must say that with the selection nowadays that oil is oil. The oil's job is to protect moving parts by creating a thin film between them that usually separates them at an almost-microscopic level. Oil also carries away heat from parts that get very hot in the engine. Oil also protects the clutch in wet-clutch bikes. Finally, the last thing I can think of is that oil keeps an engine clean by carrying away dirt, acids, and so forth to the oil filter. Unless you want your engine to go over 100k miles, I wouldn't be so picky when choosing oil so long as it meets the manufacturer's demands. I believe that the claims that oil manufacturers make are just marketing and so designer oils are worth almost only peace of mind (which is a good enough excuse for 90% of motorcyclists).

With the subject of mixing oils popping up now and then I'd like to say that you can safely mix viscosities, synthetics, conventionals, semi-synths, and just about anything else in your bike so long as they meet the manufacturer's demands. I wouldn't recommend doing so but if it is necessary (such as topping off in the middle of nowhere) then it is perfectly safe.

Here is a small list of good and decent brands of oil in no particular order...

-Motul
-Bel Ray
-Mobil
-Silkolene
-Golden Spectro
-Redline
-Amsoil
-Valvoline 4-stroke
-Castrol

Please feel free to add, detract, and contend any of the information or misinformation I may have provided.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2004, 12:43 PM
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One lil' tid-bit I noticed. I used my NEW rearstand for the first time while changing my oil. After your all done and you start the bike and let idle, I would recommend taking the bike down off the stand to idle. It seemed to take longer for the oil light to turn off while still on the stand. Once I let the bike down, the light went off. Very nice post, I think you covered everything nicely!
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-30-2004, 03:22 PM
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I guess I would just add Mobil 1 onto the list of recomended oils. Great post!
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-31-2004, 01:31 AM
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Also, if you have a bike thats been running conventional oils for years (say maybe more than 10-15,000 miles) and you switch to synthetic you'll want to change the filter at 500-1000 miles, start and idle the bike to fill the new filter and then top the oil back up to the full line. I know in cars when you switch to synthetic they recomend this because the synthetic causes a lot of crud to turn loose and go to the filter. Any body know about this with bikes?

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-31-2004, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, guys. Those are good additions to this post!
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-18-2004, 02:24 PM
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Here is some Information for you....

Oil companies provide data on their oils most often referred to as "typical inspection data". This is an average of the actual physical and a few common chemical properties of their oils. This information is available to the public through their distributors or by writing or calling the company directly. I have compiled a list of the most popular, premium oils so that a ready comparison can be made. If your favorite oil is not on the list get the data from the distributor and use what I have as a data base.

This article is going to look at six of the most important properties of a motor oil readily available to the public: viscosity, viscosity index (VI), flash point, pour point, % sulfated ash, and % zinc.

Viscosity is a measure of the "flowability" of an oil. More specifically, it is the property of an oil to develop and maintain a certain amount of shearing stress dependent on flow, and then to offer continued resistance to flow. Thicker oils generally have a higher viscosity, and thinner oils a lower viscosity. This is the most important property for an engine. An oil with too low a viscosity can shear and loose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm.

The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real" viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for Winter use.

The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to their S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to engine oils is also shown.

__________________________________________________ _____________
| |
| SAE Gear Viscosity Number |
| __________________________________________________ ______ |
| |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | |
| |____|_____|___|______________|___________________ _____| |
| |
| SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number |
| ____________________________ |
| |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | |
| |__|_____|____|_____|______| |
__________________________________________________ ____________
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C


Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.

Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no viscosity improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle.

Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.

Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.

Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in degrees F.

% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look for oils with a low ash content.

% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling.

The Data:
Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available

Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc

20W-50
AMSOIL 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 ---
Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 ---
Red Line 150 503 -49 --- ---
Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12

20W-40
Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12
Quaker State 121 415 -15 .9 ---

15W-50
Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- ---
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49 --- ---

5W-50
Castrol Syntec 180 437 -45 1.2 .10 .095 % Phosphor
Quaker State Synquest 173 457 -76 --- ---
Pennzoil Performax 176 --- -69 --- ---

5W-40
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 ---

15W-40
AMSOIL 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 149 495 -40 --- ---
Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13

10W-30
AMSOIL 142 480 -70 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12
Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 160 450 -65 --- ---
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 ---
Quaker State 156 410 -30 .9 ---
Red Line 139 475 -40 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13
Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- ---
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12

5W-30
AMSOIL 168 480 -76 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12
Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11
Chevron Supreme Synt. 165 446 -72 1.1 .12
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 ---
Mobil 1 165 445 -65 --- ---
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State 165 405 -35 .9 ---
Red Line 151 455 -49 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12

All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle manufacture's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are "good enough", but those with the better numbers are icing on the cake.

The synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is justified in your application.

The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers (typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies (up to 25,000 miles) are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the engine at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or extreme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent that the dead dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official allowance for the use of synthetics.

Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to great lengths to develop an additive package that meets the vehicle's requirements. Some of these additives are synergistic, that is the effect of two additives together is greater than the effect of each acting separately. If you add anything to the oil you may upset this balance and prevent the oil from performing to specification.

The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to determining what makes a top quality oil. The exact base stock used, the type, quality, and quantity of additives used are very important. The given data combined with the manufacturer's claims, your personal experience, and the reputation of the oil among others who use it should help you make an informed choice.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-16-2005, 05:01 AM
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You can't use a better oil then Mobil #1 15-50 in your bike! I change my oil & filter every 1000-1500 miles because I use my bike hard. So called motorcycle oil is a scam and inferior to most other oils. Bottom line is that you CAN'T change the oil in a bike too often! Frequency is the key to longivity.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-18-2005, 02:53 PM
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So called motorcycle oil is not a scam. It is formulated to prevent clutch slippage. Regular motor oil is not intended for use in a system where the motor shares oil with the transmission/clutch. If you have a hardly davidson or some variation of that, where the motor and transmission and clutch don't share the same oil, then use automotive oils. If you have a Jap sportbike or anything that uses the same oil for motor, trans, clutch, use motorcycle oil only, or you will see shortened clutch life.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-18-2005, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kwak63603
So called motorcycle oil is not a scam. It is formulated to prevent clutch slippage. Regular motor oil is not intended for use in a system where the motor shares oil with the transmission/clutch. If you have a hardly davidson or some variation of that, where the motor and transmission and clutch don't share the same oil, then use automotive oils. If you have a Jap sportbike or anything that uses the same oil for motor, trans, clutch, use motorcycle oil only, or you will see shortened clutch life.
Hmm I have been using synthetic mobil 1 standard for years and years on different bikes and I have not seen any premature clutch wear.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2005, 04:20 AM
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Kwak is another brain washed dummy but don't fault him too much because he has a lot of company. The WORSE oil you can use in your motorcyle is a alleged motorcycle oil none of which own a refinery and buy their oil from someome else.

The two best oils in the world are Amsoil oil and Mobil #1. PERIOD!
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