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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-30-2016, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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beginner bikes?!

So quick question, I have been cruising this site for a very minimal amount of time lets say ten min. EVERY where says that a 250 is the way to go, however in the msf class you are on 700 and 500 bikes, why would they chose to use bigger bikes in the class yet recommend everyone on a 250? I just bought a ninja 650r and I am terrified to even attempt to drive it because I worry I will have this out of control machine throw me off in an instant because of everyone saying oh you needed a 250, however I have read that the 650r is actually a very good start bike. I am due to take my msf class on the 11th but would really like to at least ride down the road before then but the most I have done is play with the friction zone. Help me out here.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 12:17 AM
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Bikes don't kill people...
People kill people...and themselves

Meaning you control the bike, crashing into a car or any solid object at 50mph hurts the same on a 250 or a 1000.

I teach any new riders on a small dirt bike, so they can learn to use the clutch, brakes and throttle without too much care.

circles, figure 8's, hard braking.
try to develop a habit for the controls.
when going to the street, knowledge of the road, previous driving experience, is a major plus.

following distance and certain road habit will also differ on a bike.

many people start on larger bikes, but you will be responsible for anything that happens, so ride carefully, ride slow, for the first 10,000 miles and you should be good to go...

the 650 is a powerful machine and deserves respect.

there is plenty of reading material for newbs.

learn to take off with just the clutch first.


good luck

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do the beaches there still "squeak" when walking?
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 12:38 PM
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You should take the msf class before risking it and dropping your bike. It happened to me 3x. Plus, the classes will prepare you in case anything wrong happens different bike same concept you'll get the idea good luck!!


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 06:03 PM
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So... Every MSF course I've seen/wandered past has typically used 125s or 250s. I'm not sure where you're getting 500's or 700s.

Skip that, they reason a smaller bike is suggested is because it'll be more forgiving of any mistake you happen to make.

Of course I'm generalizing from a single example here, but everyone does that. At least I do.


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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
Bikes don't kill people...
People kill people...and themselves

Meaning you control the bike, crashing into a car or any solid object at 50mph hurts the same on a 250 or a 1000.

I teach any new riders on a small dirt bike, so they can learn to use the clutch, brakes and throttle without too much care.

circles, figure 8's, hard braking.
try to develop a habit for the controls.
when going to the street, knowledge of the road, previous driving experience, is a major plus.

following distance and certain road habit will also differ on a bike.

many people start on larger bikes, but you will be responsible for anything that happens, so ride carefully, ride slow, for the first 10,000 miles and you should be good to go...

the 650 is a powerful machine and deserves respect.

there is plenty of reading material for newbs.

learn to take off with just the clutch first.


good luck

ps
do the beaches there still "squeak" when walking?
Right, not to mention the fact that a 1000cc bike now versus 30 years ago is going to be substantially more powerful and more dangerous if misused. And super sport bikes are going to be a lot more dangerous than a similarly sized cruiser would be.

I think a large part of why they usually use 250cc bikes is that they're generally cheaper, easier to pick up if dropped and generally reduce the potential for mayhem. You can still seriously injure yourself with them if you do stupid things, but the margin for error is typically larger.

Presumably, whatever bikes they're using have been successfully used in previous classes, so as long as you're really careful and respect the bike, it'll probably be OK. I'm just a bit puzzled that they opted for larger bikes. It could be as simple as they expect the typical rider to be more overweight.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
So... Every MSF course I've seen/wandered past has typically used 125s or 250s. I'm not sure where you're getting 500's or 700s.

Skip that, they reason a smaller bike is suggested is because it'll be more forgiving of any mistake you happen to make.
I'm finding with my 250r that I have to be mindful not to make use of that extra leniency from the bike as you can definitely ride on it in a way that would be quite dangerous on a larger bike and still not be near the point of tipping it over or popping a wheelie.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 08:08 AM
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I think throttle response is a major factor with a new rider.
A smaller HP bike when you give it gas doesn't react nearly as aggressive as larger HP bike.

Therefore a small mistake with the throttle on a more powerful bike can result in a not so favorable action.
EX...
In a turn... a little too much throttle and a new rider may go wide or slip out.
Too much throttle taking off and a possible "loop"
Of course the clutch has a lot to do with how the throttle engages. Pop the clutch and the resulting jump can cause a new rider to panic.
The sliding back feeling can cause a new rider to hold on too tight, accidentally giving it more throttle, results can be really bad.

and yes the older bikes were different...
Ex...my bikes
1978 Suzuki gs1000e 90HP/560lbs
2009 Kawasaki zx10r 160HP/460lbs
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
I think throttle response is a major factor with a new rider.
A smaller HP bike when you give it gas doesn't react nearly as aggressive as larger HP bike.

Therefore a small mistake with the throttle on a more powerful bike can result in a not so favorable action.
EX...
In a turn... a little too much throttle and a new rider may go wide or slip out.
Too much throttle taking off and a possible "loop"
Of course the clutch has a lot to do with how the throttle engages. Pop the clutch and the resulting jump can cause a new rider to panic.
The sliding back feeling can cause a new rider to hold on too tight, accidentally giving it more throttle, results can be really bad.

and yes the older bikes were different...
Ex...my bikes
1978 Suzuki gs1000e 90HP/560lbs
2009 Kawasaki zx10r 160HP/460lbs
This plus, braking ability, and rider position can make a big difference in building confidence.

Leaning over tends to make new riders put a lot of weight on their arms which inhibits all of the function they provide (steering, braking, accelerating). It's tough to make a quick turn or adjustment when you're relying on the handlbars to hold your body up.

And the brakes on anything with the word "super" in it are powerful enough to stop the front wheel dead if you're not smooth and paying attention. Smaller bikes, will forgive you rather than tip you if you grab a little too much right lever.

Of course I'm generalizing from a single example here, but everyone does that. At least I do.


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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sev View Post
This plus, braking ability, and rider position can make a big difference in building confidence.

Leaning over tends to make new riders put a lot of weight on their arms which inhibits all of the function they provide (steering, braking, accelerating). It's tough to make a quick turn or adjustment when you're relying on the handlbars to hold your body up.

And the brakes on anything with the word "super" in it are powerful enough to stop the front wheel dead if you're not smooth and paying attention. Smaller bikes, will forgive you rather than tip you if you grab a little too much right lever.
Speaking of braking...reminds me of an old thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
being prepared and ready for an emergency stop/evade is a very important skill on the street

I think that a very important point is made at 2:10 and again at 3:44-4:21

The video is talking about "braking" at the track, But.
one of the most common mistakes most new and even experienced riders make, is briefly discussed.


In "panic stops" grabbing the front brake most often results in "washing out" the front end.

whereas having your fingers on the bake ready to squeeze will
result in a quicker response and a smoother initial braking.
And possibly save your assets too, he also discusses "trail breaking"



the speaker holds track lap records, on most every track in this area

I like to lift the weight off my butt with my legs when coming into a turn, this lets the bike position itself underneath me better, but thats maybe a little advanced for a newb.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 11:59 PM
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When i took the MSF course we had 250s. I got back into riding on a 600 and made it about 3 months before I got a bigger bike. I am over 200# and got tired of having to be in super high revs to get some juice out of the thing. I grew up riding a dirt bike though so I have been pretty adept on 2 wheels.
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