Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,645 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Allright, I got into this hot debate with a buddy of mine who was smack talking the 636 saying it's a cheater bike since it's got the extra 36 CC's and is in the 600 class of bikes and what not.

I told him yeah, you buy it as a 600 but it's got the power and handling to ride with the 750's on the track. Anyway, anyone have any information that would help me win this whole thing, it went on for around 20mins literally...just something I forgot maybe.

Share your thoughts, your inputs. I need to retaliate in full force. It's the way of the Ninja!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,106 Posts
Well, I can see where he is coming from if he is just talking about engine displacement, but it really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. That's like saying that any bike over 600cc’s is a "cheater" bike. It just has a larger engine. Big deal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
534 Posts
your friend is just jealous because kawi thought of it 1st.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
I agree with t-type he's just trying to find a reason to hate on the 636.
I'm sure if the bike company he likes came up with it first, he would'nt be knocking it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,295 Posts
For years Honda and Kawi never had a full-size liter bike. No one stood up and said the GSXR or R1 were cheaters, yet they compared them all against each other in the "liter" bike class.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
But it isn't a 600. I could see someone being upset if it was advertised as a 600 and it wasn't. You could say the opposite about "true" 600's. There not, they're all 599 so you could say that everyone else isn't living up to what they say they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
All I have to say is that if people squak about engine displacement, don't you think that guys racing 750's feel dumb when they talk shit about the new zx-6 and Tommy Haden blows right past them! That is the reason I bought this bike, to have a GSXR 750 killer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
When the 2002 ZX6R in Europe got bumped up to 636 cc's no one raised any controversy about it. The fact that they're complaining now sounds like they're just jealous. Besides, as Crazy636rider said, the 6R competes not just with 600s but with the gixxer 750.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
978 Posts
Unless you are in a racing event, and the rules stipulate Less-Than-600ccs, how can it be cheating? For 'those' races, the 6RR is the answer. If there are no rules (i.e. since we mostly drive on the street) it's impossible to cheat.

(shrug) he's just a dummy...hehe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
i have to disagree with some of my forum members on this one. As i have stated in another post, i do not think its fair to compare a 636 with other 599cc bikes. because its not a true 600cc bike. I say this because: If Honda or Suziki or another maker of bikes comes out with a 666cc bike, is that a fair comparision to compare to other 599cc bikes or even the 636cc kawi, i dont think so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
422 Posts
Well...either way...my question still needs to be answered..who's it cheating??? So what kawasaki made a 636cc bike....they also have a 599cc/600. So how is it cheating? What is it cheating in? RACING? or just for the simple fact it has 37 more cc's???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,106 Posts
It all comes down to his buddy's statement being irrelevant. It just doesn't make sense. The 6R isn't Kawasaki’s designated racing bike, the 6RR is. If the statement did make any sense that would be like saying that any bike over 600cc's is not fair competition. And, the last time I checked, the 6R doesn't race liter-class, so you're really not comparing the competition at all. You’re comparing two entirely different things.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,191 Posts
For racing class, I agree the 636 would be cheating in a 600 class series, and hence the 6RR should be used to compare.
On the road, I disagree totally. Bike comapanies should be delivering the best package they can for whatever type of bike they are making. If for Kawi a 636 motor in the 6R delivers a better bike to the consumer then the 599 motor in the 6R, then they should be making the 636.

Also the point about the other classes has some merit too. For a few years people have compared the gixxer1k, R1, fireblade, and 9R together. The gixxer and R1 have over 100cc's more then the Kawi, and 50-70 more then the Honda. None of the gixxer fans ever complained then, they just put down the Kawi.
I did say it has some merit, as mentioned above, but it's also not really applicable, it's an interesting fact but does not change the argument at all.

And, technically, the difference is 37cc's, since the "600" cc bikes are all 599cc (well Yamaha lists theres as 600cc, so I guess they are cheating too), and the 636 is actually 636.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,190 Posts
The open class bikes provide some kind of precedence. Think back to when it was a 900cc class and not 1000cc. For a few years the Fireblade was bumped up to 919cc and then 929cc but was still referred to as a 900cc bike and compared to the ZX-9R (which was a true 899cc bike and still made more power)and no-one accused Honda of cheating. That may have happened with the 954 version as well but I'd lost interest by then and anyway, it was up against two 1000cc bikes by then so it was a moot point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Open class is a grey area. That's why it's called Open Class. Honda increasing the Fireblade capacity means nothing, because in the past we had the ZX-10, ZX-11, and the GSXR-1100, and before those the Ninja 900R. It's a class that is 899cc and higher, and always will be. On the other hand middleweight is a distinct class with a 599cc cap. Things may change with the fading of the 750 class, but time will tell. I personally plan to get a ZX6RR for racing, even thou the 636 is legal in CCS. One of the reasons for my choice is I don't want the people on the GSXR-600, R6, CBR600, & 600RR thinking it's only because of the extra 37cc, if I win races. When Kawi started this whole 636 thing, it was because the 599 was lacking the power of the competion. Unfortunatly the 03 ZX6RR still suffers from this problem. I'm waiting to see if the finally get it right with the 04 ZX6RR. I don't want to have to get a GSXR-600 to have a edge in racing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,186 Posts
Originally posted by GreenEnvy
For a few years people have compared the gixxer1k, R1, fireblade, and 9R together. The gixxer and R1 have over 100cc's more then the Kawi, and 50-70 more then the Honda.
Actually the GSX-R1000 is "only" 988cc...

Anyway, I don't think 636 is cheating unless you race a 636 in a race series where rules don't allow the displacement. Beezer, ask your friend if he thinks that aftermarket parts are cheating too [:eek:)]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
Originally posted by SP8
When Kawi started this whole 636 thing, it was because the 599 was lacking the power of the competion.
From 1995 to 2001 models ZX-6R was definately not lacking in power or torque department compared to any other 599cc bike. In dyno tests it was usually more powerful than Honda CBR600 and on par with Gixxer and R6.

Originally posted by SP8
Unfortunatly the 03 ZX6RR still suffers from this problem. I'm waiting to see if the finally get it right with the 04 ZX6RR.
Yes, 2003 ZX6-RR is suffering from low power figures and seems that Kawasaki has figured it out too, because they are trying to correct it with updated 2004 model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
Originally posted by godsdozer
i have to disagree with some of my forum members on this one. As i have stated in another post, i do not think its fair to compare a 636 with other 599cc bikes. because its not a true 600cc bike. I say this because: If Honda or Suziki or another maker of bikes comes out with a 666cc bike, is that a fair comparision to compare to other 599cc bikes or even the 636cc kawi, i dont think so.
Of cource it is fair, if they would offer it with the same price. ZX-9R and Honda Fireblade is usually tested with R1 and GSX-R 1000. Do you think that Suzuki or Yamaha is cheating? Come on...

In Finland the 599cc CBR600RR costs 1000 eur more than the 636cc ZX-6R. So, you get 37cc more by spending 1000 eur (+1200 USD) less. Cheating? If you say so...

Ofcourse, in racing, the situation is different but that is why the ZX6-RR exists.

Allthough in one magazine they said, that Kawasaki will not enter the WSS (World SuperSport) serie in 2004. Hopefully this is not true, because it does not make any sense to update their race-rep that exists only because of racing and then not to race it. Maybe their "not so competitive" MotoGP project is eating all the money? Go figure...
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top