Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok so for Superbike here in Canada there is a 180 RWHP limit and for 600's there is a 125 RWHP limit, but what I wanted to show you that with all the modifications that you can do in Superbike, here is what we have for lap times... Trust me Mosport is not a slow or tight track, it's very fast and flowing where bikes achieve absolute top speed and between the 600's and Superbike the laptimes aren't even that much different... The rider who won both races is the smae guy, so you can't put it simply on the rider

Superbike http://www.cdnsuperbike.com/news/06/071506h.shtml
Supersport http://www.cdnsuperbike.com/news/06/071606g.shtml
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,830 Posts
In race terms, that's actually a lot; but for the average rider, I have to agree. A CR with NESBA once told me that he was a good bit slower on his R1 than he was on his R6. For those of you that haven't done a track day, a CR (control rider) is the guy (or gal) in charge, the guy that was probably hand selected for his position because he was a very skilled rider. If a CR couldn't handle the power of a liter bike, why on Earth would I think I could? I'm much more interested in increasing my corner speed and getting on the throttle sooner. If I can master that on my 636, I'll likely downgrade to a 600 (ZX-6RR) and start getting more serious about my racing. But I need a lot more track time before I can even begin to think about that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,463 Posts
Think it was roadracing world that did an article on this as well, the guy was a 600cc racer then was like i can hop on a zx-10r and be super fast but ended up more than 2 seconds a lap slower..after some serious suspension adjustments and riding style change he finally was faster on the zx10, but not by much overall time...
different styles of riding, dont believe all that SHIT you read about stock liter bikes destroying 600's at least on track..
the 675 daytons was ONLY .04 behind a zx-10r in masterbike so do some math....
and the aprillia beat them both by over a 1/2 second..go figure?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I think it comes back to the argument of Corner Speed, and the abilty of the 600's to exit a corner a little better, alot of litre bike have so much power you are almost sure to insight a highside when coming outta corners, whereas with the sixxes you can get on it harder with smoother acceleration. I just think it's really interesting...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Have any of you ridden a 10R at the track? If not, then how can you even begin to compare how easy or hard it is to track a litre bike???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Originally posted by jdgun_13
Think it was roadracing world that did an article on this as well, the guy was a 600cc racer then was like i can hop on a zx-10r and be super fast but ended up more than 2 seconds a lap slower..after some serious suspension adjustments and riding style change he finally was faster on the zx10, but not by much overall time...
different styles of riding, dont believe all that SHIT you read about stock liter bikes destroying 600's at least on track..
the 675 daytons was ONLY .04 behind a zx-10r in masterbike so do some math....
and the aprilia beat them both by over a 1/2 second..go figure?
some uneducated people never learn.

Yes liter bikes demand a different style so of course it takes some adjustments [:M80] but in the end they are quicker.

And gee just think what would have happened to an R6, zx6r or even a gix 600 against the Triumph if they made the final group??!! but unfortunately for them they didn't.

As for the prilla i've explained it to ya once so perhaps ya need yet another lesson in how much better Ohlins suspension is compared to the OEM zx10r parts?? DO ya think it made a diff? [:p]

now go figure :D

BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Originally posted by DarkLegend
Trust me Mosport is not a slow or tight track, it's very fast and flowing where bikes achieve absolute top speed and between the 600's and Superbike the laptimes aren't even that much different...
A 22.0 vs a 23.9 isn't much difference? It's a huge difference, especially on the track. 2 seconds in MotoGP is the difference between front row and last row of the grid; in WSB and AMA it's nearly the same. You're talking about a 1 minute gap at the end of a 30 lap race - is that easier to visualize?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
You guys are misunderstanding what I'm saying, I find it interesting how on a fast and flowing good size track the difference isn't as significant as I would've thought, the difference in lap time was actually 1.39 seconds, and consider the RWHP differences, consider the unlimited modifications allowed in Superbike and consider the limits allowed for modifications in Supersport. It was the same rider on both bikes who pulled these times, his times on the 600 were good enough to place him fourth in the Superbike race. So all I'm saying is that it's not as much of a significant difference as I originally thought. Perhaps a Formula Extreme Bike would be even closer?

Lastly, this is a discussion board, non? Why can't it be just that, discussion, whether we agree or not? Why flame or result to the calling of names for Christ's sake?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Ok Big Daddy, I see what you are talking about... This post was in no way connected to that one, and I'm not trying to say, my bike is better or whatever, I simply was interested to find out that the difference wasn't greater. I do understand that in a 30lap race, 1.39 seconds a lap works out to be a whole lot(41.7 seconds) and I'm not ignorant to that. But my observations were just basically surprise. The rider as mentioned b4 was the same guy, and his pace on his 600 was way faster than everyone else, and quite a bit faster than more than half the superbike field.

Anyway guys keep the discussion going...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
yea considering the factors involved with your original post 600's are quite capable and if i had a choice between a liter bike and any 600 for strickly track duty i'd choose the 600.

BD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
btw, some of the first posters here misssed that the 600's ARE SLOWER than the 1000's, not vice-versa.

If you are 2 seconds slower, multiply by 20 laps, you are at least 40 seconds behind. Given that the 2 seconds slower is actually your best time, I would suspect you are more like 50 or 60 seconds behind the leader.

What track has a lap record set FASTEST by a 600?? Impossible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
oh, to add, what I don't understand is how Jordan Szoke's SUPERBIKE lost nearly 10hp on the same dyno from one day to the next?? Nearly the same weather too.

My buddy is JP Tache #28!!

Another thing to remember is qualifying times could vary with who you are riding against during qualifying. Hang with the fastest guy for a lap and there you go! These guys are given 20 minutes(or whatever time) to ride around the track and set a good time...some of them slow down and wait for a fast rider to tag along with. Lots of variables. The winner of the race doesn't always have the best lap times!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I'm not saying 600's are faster... Jeez, why does everyone want to argue? Those laptimes I put the links to were the laps times in the race, not the qualifying times... qualifying times for both were a little faster. I think the reason the RHWP changed on the bikes (both the 6RR, and the 10R) is because they changed the ECU mapping for lower end torque, I can't Gaurantee that, but as JP is a friend of yours, Matt McBride is a very good friend of mine, and personal fitness training client. Though this year he rides for Suzuki, he was on the Kawi factory team last year, and has mentionde to me that they sometimes do this on double header weekends. (not about who I know) But as I said b4 in all the above posts, this wasn't about saying the 6's were better or faster, just an observation that the difference between the supersport and superbike wasn't as great as I originally thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
Originally posted by DarkLegend
I'm not saying 600's are faster... Jeez, why does everyone want to argue? Those laptimes I put the links to were the laps times in the race, .
Yes, "I" never said the 600 was faster...neither did your links...but I had the impression that 'others' are implying that.

And yes, I've met Matt a few times, pretty kool guy! His bike(1000) is fast!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
and btw darklegend, I cheer on Matt too!! Glad to see he is back in the game!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Yeah he's a pretty down to earth guy, and fast as hell on his bike. And Yeah No harm, no foul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,760 Posts
Originally posted by Big Daddy
yea considering the factors involved with your original post 600's are quite capable and if i had a choice between a liter bike and any 600 for strickly track duty i'd choose the 600.

BD
BD ,

your story keep changing around a bit . First the 10R beats all . Now the 600's are the best . Just wondering where you actually stand on this ???? You sound confused . God knows I am after reading your comments . :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,213 Posts
Originally posted by tberd



BD ,

your story keep changing around a bit . First the 10R beats all . Now the 600's are the best . Just wondering where you actually stand on this ???? You sound confused . God knows I am after reading your comments . :D
zing!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Originally posted by arturo3rd



zing!
:D well not really as i never said the 600's are the best and never stated as i did above about prefering a 600 for strictly track use as opposed to the class leading liter bike zx10 so tberd is reaching big time while trying to stir the pot as he did some months ago. [:p]

BD
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top