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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How wide can I go in the back without having to get a new rim? Will a wider rear tire really make that much of a difference in performance? And what about the front tire, what will going wider in the front do?

If going wider won't do anything for me, I might just stick with the 180 in the rear and 120 in the front.
 

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stick with the 180 rear, going any bigger is purely for bling. it is a heavier tire, will slow turn in, and will probably be slightly pinched on a rim designed for a 180. on the front tire, a 120 is pretty much it for all sportbikes. depending on what size you have now, either a 120/60, 120/65, or 120/70, you can go up a size on the aspect ratio which will incrase turn in and give you more stability through corners cause you now have a better and bigger contact patch on the front tire. id say stick with the 180 rear, and get a 120/70 front if you dont have one already
 

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If your in to twistys or running the track you should try a 190/60. Taller tire but tons more grip in the corners just need to set up your suspension to it. I have ben running 209's for the past two seasons. Will not go back to a 180 setup as long as I can still get these.
 

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Andre 3000
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120/70ZR17

120= Width in millimeters
70= Aspect ratio (height divided by width)
Z= speed rating
R= Construction, in this case 'radial'
17= Rim diameter in inches
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
How would I break in the tire?
What tire pressure should I run it at? I heard 15-20psi. He said it grips better due to more tire being in contact with the road.
 

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Originally posted by lurker
stick with the 180 rear, going any bigger is purely for bling. it is a heavier tire, will slow turn in, and will probably be slightly pinched on a rim designed for a 180. on the front tire, a 120 is pretty much it for all sportbikes. depending on what size you have now, either a 120/60, 120/65, or 120/70, you can go up a size on the aspect ratio which will incrase turn in and give you more stability through corners cause you now have a better and bigger contact patch on the front tire. id say stick with the 180 rear, and get a 120/70 front if you dont have one already
A taller aspect ratio will give you more stability, but less turn in response. A shorter apect ratio will do the opposite. However, unless you are tracking your bike, I doubt you'll notice the difference that much. And neither of them have much to do with the contact patch. The sidewall doesn't have much to do with how much rubber is in contact with the road/track.
 

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Originally posted by tallicakid
If your in to twistys or running the track you should try a 190/60. Taller tire but tons more grip in the corners just need to set up your suspension to it. I have ben running 209's for the past two seasons. Will not go back to a 180 setup as long as I can still get these.
Where did you get that from? If a 190 was better on that bike, don't you think they would have came from the factory that way? And if a 190 was meant to fit on a rim that originallly was designed for a 180, wouldn't the tire manuafacturers take note of that.

I love when people think they know more than the companies that make these things that put millions into research and devopment.

A 190 tire will distort from its original and intended (and better) profile on a 180 rim. You're creating a profile and handling characteristics that aren't what the tire was designed for. (Then again, you ARE running obsolete Dunslop rubber, so damn near anything would be an improvment.)

If anyone is outriding the grip of any of the current offerings from any of the tire companies on a ZX6 on the street (Pilot Powers, Qualifiers, Diablo Corsas), I'd be very surprised. Run a 180 tire on a 180 rim, and when you start backing it in to turns or spinning up the tire at max lean (i.e. NO CHICKEN STRIPS) then you should start thinking about getting it on the track and running 180 DOT race rubber. 190s go on 190 spec rims.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by metricdevil



Where did you get that from? If a 190 was better on that bike, don't you think they would have came from the factory that way? And if a 190 was meant to fit on a rim that originallly was designed for a 180, wouldn't the tire manuafacturers take note of that.

I love when people think they know more than the companies that make these things that put millions into research and devopment.

A 190 tire will distort from its original and intended (and better) profile on a 180 rim. You're creating a profile and handling characteristics that aren't what the tire was designed for. (Then again, you ARE running obsolete Dunslop rubber, so damn near anything would be an improvment.)

If anyone is outriding the grip of any of the current offerings from any of the tire companies on a ZX6 on the street (Pilot Powers, Qualifiers, Diablo Corsas), I'd be very surprised. Run a 180 tire on a 180 rim, and when you start backing it in to turns or spinning up the tire at max lean (i.e. NO CHICKEN STRIPS) then you should start thinking about getting it on the track and running 180 DOT race rubber. 190s go on 190 spec rims.
Well there is nothing I can do at this moment. I have 190's on there right now and I could tell the difference right away, the grip is far superior than the old tires I had.
 

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Originally posted by ZX6R_rider


Well there is nothing I can do at this moment. I have 190's on there right now and I could tell the difference right away, the grip is far superior than the old tires I had.
You could tell the differene between old, worn tires and new rubber? Of course! Were you slipping and sliding all over the place on the old ones? Spinning them up exiting turns? Stepping the rear out on your turn in?

C'mon.

Nevermind. I don't mean to put you on blast, dude. This stuff just wears on me when I read it over and over again ... My bad. I shouldn't let it get to me.
 

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metric just so your not alone on that limb out there ill come join you and agree with what your saying regarding the change of tyre size. Its one thing doing it on a car where you have 3 other wheels offset to help control the car but on a bike you should pretty much always match the front and rear tyre to the same manufacturer (to avoid mishaps) and where a tyre size was setup for them try and keep to that setting as you rightly say millions are spent on r&d and thus this is the best combination for overall street riding. tracks are different as you do not really have bad surfaces or potholes or some arsehole pulling out in front of you.

In regards to the profile on the front ill agree that a 65 is what the manufacturer state but i run a 70 purely because the tyres I wanted didnt come in a 65 profile at the time but pushing the forks up through the yoke offsets what the manufacturer was trying to achieve with the stability.

Russ
 

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Originally posted by ZX6R_rider
How would I break in the tire?
Just take it easy for about 60 - 100 miles. Don't throw it into corners with gay abandon until you've scrubbed the tyre in, 'cause it might chuck you on your ear.

What tire pressure should I run it at? I heard 15-20psi. He said it grips better due to more tire being in contact with the road.
Yes, but not really, if you follow. The low pressure will cause the tyre to heat up a lot, which is good for outright grip, but you don't need pressures that low unless you're a stunter who does wheelies at jogging pace.

You should have the rear tyre at somewhere between 34 and 42 psi when cold. The front should be somewhere from 32 - 36 psi cold.

There's no set pressure that you have to run them at, and different people prefer different pressures, so try a few different pressures and see what you like.

At any of the pressures I've suggested, the tyres will have (for all intents and purposes) exactly the same level of grip. Higher pressures will give you longer tyre life.

At 15-25 psi (cold) you might only get about 1,000 - 2,000 miles out of the rear tyre, and the handling would not be very good.
 

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Originally posted by Nigel


Don't throw it into corners with gay abandon until you've scrubbed the tyre in, 'cause it might chuck you on your ear.
Hahahahahaha! That's one of the best quotes ever! Ever!

In fact, don't ever do ANYTHING with gay abandon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Originally posted by metricdevil



You could tell the differene between old, worn tires and new rubber? Of course! Were you slipping and sliding all over the place on the old ones? Spinning them up exiting turns? Stepping the rear out on your turn in?

C'mon.

Nevermind. I don't mean to put you on blast, dude. This stuff just wears on me when I read it over and over again ... My bad. I shouldn't let it get to me.
I didn't mean the old worn tires are better than new Pilots. I meant that when the old tire (Dunlop SportMax?) was new, it still didn't compare to the new ones I have now.
 

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Originally posted by metricdevil



Where did you get that from? If a 190 was better on that bike, don't you think they would have came from the factory that way? And if a 190 was meant to fit on a rim that originallly was designed for a 180, wouldn't the tire manuafacturers take note of that.

I love when people think they know more than the companies that make these things that put millions into research and devopment.

A 190 tire will distort from its original and intended (and better) profile on a 180 rim. You're creating a profile and handling characteristics that aren't what the tire was designed for. (Then again, you ARE running obsolete Dunslop rubber, so damn near anything would be an improvment.)

If anyone is outriding the grip of any of the current offerings from any of the tire companies on a ZX6 on the street (Pilot Powers, Qualifiers, Diablo Corsas), I'd be very surprised. Run a 180 tire on a 180 rim, and when you start backing it in to turns or spinning up the tire at max lean (i.e. NO CHICKEN STRIPS) then you should start thinking about getting it on the track and running 180 DOT race rubber. 190s go on 190 spec rims.
If you would have read my post it is a 190/60 not a 190/55 so If you know anything about ratios and tires you would know that a dunlop 190/60 has the same with as the 180/55 but more of a trianglar profile which is better when at max lean you have a bigger contact patch. 190/55 spec rim is 6" and the 190/60 fits 5.5" rims
it is funny that most of the racers out here today that have sponsorship from dunlop use there tires but then again I guess thay have no idea wha there talking about. Question why are most to the aftermartket "race wheels" 5.5" anyway?
 

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Originally posted by tallicakid



If you would have read my post it is a 190/60 not a 190/55 so If you know anything about ratios and tires you would know that a dunlop 190/60 has the same with as the 180/55 but more of a trianglar profile which is better when at max lean you have a bigger contact patch. 190/55 spec rim is 6" and the 190/60 fits 5.5" rims
it is funny that most of the racers out here today that have sponsorship from dunlop use there tires but then again I guess thay have no idea wha there talking about. Question why are most to the aftermartket "race wheels" 5.5" anyway?
considering the '190' is the width and the '60' is the aspect ratio, i don't understand how a tire that is '190' wide "is the same width" as a tire that is '180' wide. why doesn't dunlop label them as a "180" if they are 180 wide?

For those not buying the 190/60 dunolp 209's. this link explains the 190 tire on a 180 rim problem: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires/146_0206_tire_size/
 

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Good link. I remember reading that a while ago ...

Not that I don't think you know way more than the ex-racers, industry experts and motorcycle specialists that work at Sport Rider magazine, but these are direct quotes. Let's see if they match up with what you're saying ...

"But in reality, a 190/50-17 fits properly only on a 6.0-inch rim, and cramming it onto anything smaller severely changes its profile."

"... we slipped a 190/50 rear Sportec onto the F4i and rode a portion of the test loop for a practical comparison. With no changes to suspension or geometry, the F4i felt substantially different with the wider tire. With the bike straight up and down, steering was slightly sluggish in comparison, but just off vertical, the F4i was quite tippy and darted into corners. The light, neutral steering of the Sportecs was completely changed and the bike lost its balanced feel. The sensation was very much like riding on a tire squared off from too many freeway miles. "

"And, contrary to the popular myth that the wider tire puts down a bigger footprint and gives more traction, we felt no improvement in that department from the properly sized tire."

"Tire engineers work hard to design and match front and rear profiles for characteristics that we sometimes take for granted. Upsetting that balance is surprisingly easy and you should think twice before sacrificing your tire's performance for appearance's sake."

Um, I think they're right. But then again, you probably know more than them. No matter how you try and describe it, a 180/55 and a 190/60 do not have the same width. The 180 is 180 millimeters wide and the 190 is 190 millimeters wide. They aren't the same. The triangular profile you are talking about is because you are distorting the tire. If you want a more triangular profile, take a look at the Pilot Powers or the Pilot Races. 180s, of course. And yeah, the Dunslops are miles behind the other tire manufacturers. You you like 'em, that's your opinion. We outfit a lot of amature racers and track guys with race rubber, and I've never heard anything but bad things about them. I thought the Michelins were a hell of a lot nicer. So if you want to debate that, have at it. But you're fighting a losing battle with the 180 vs. 190 debate.
 

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I know we can go on an on an on about this
The fitment spec from dounlop does show a 6" But I know tons of guys in the CCS series using these tires. I also know a dunlop rep that never said anything about mounting these on my rims.
Anyhow the height of the 190/60 height 25.83" width 7.32
180/55 height 25.31" width 7.16
so you can see not a huge diffrence
if I get a chace I will snape a pic of the 209's on my bike.
Try these tire if you ever get a chance but you have gone to get some heat in them for the best results.
 
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