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Discussion Starter #1
At speed, you have to counter-steer if you want to turn the bike. There is no other way to turn a bike at speed. You are right about not having to counter-steer when you are going really slow like that. That is the only time you don't have to counter-steer in order to turn the bike. I could delve into this in great detail, but I will just suggest that you perform a search on the subject. This topic has been discussed in great detail before.

The search feature is located at the upper right-hand corner of the screen. Welcome to the board.:)
 

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Yep past about 20km/h you are countersteering if your turning, you just cant turn the handlebars like you do below that speed.

MOving your weight around also helps cornering, but I'd work on getting smooth corners first, then start hanging off the bike :) hehe


-=Welcome To Canada=-

2002 Green 6R
1986 Gixxer 7/11
 

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Shifting your weight is very helpful when turning at speed, so that you don't have to lean the bike over as much and have less traction. The more upright the bike, the better your traction.

The weight shift happens at the point that you lean the bike over; once leaned over, you can stay in the same position (half-assed off the seat [^]), but please be aware of placing some weight on the outside footpeg as well. This helps stabilize the bike by placing some weight against any tendency to slide out.

Hope that made sense ...
 

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does everybody counter steer to take corners at a decent speed? I know going real slow like 3 mph you dont counter steer.I want to lean my bike down far around corners like almost having my knee on the ground. Also do you shift alot of your weight off the seat and to the side of the seat by scooting your azz over? I know i sound like a rookie that i am but damn i gotta ask this question so i can get some good advice so i can enjoy riding my bike a little more.I drive an 03
but i dont drive it like i should i would post a pic but its just like every other red 03 posted on this site already. I would appreciate you guys comments thank you
 

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I would go to "school" they will teach you all about it...see the descussion under Racers Corner...Which Riding School to Take...
 

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Cazper,

People have already answered most of your questions, so I'll only touch on the ones that haven't been answered. You don't really want to scoot your azz over you want to slightly pick yourself up with your legs and move it over. Otherwise you will end up using your arms and handlebars to move yourself, which will cause inputs into the handlebars that you don't want. Besides your azz you also want to get your upper body weight off to the side as well. When you go to the TRACK you will want to do your body leaning before you enter the corner (as well as all your breaking and down shifting) that way when you do come to your turn-in point the only thing you have to do is turn-in. Hope this helps, and your questions were fine, actually good questions.


Jef
ZX-6RR 2003
 

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Here's an article you may find interesting. It was written by a STAR Motorcycle School instructor.

http://www.trackjunkie.com/features/articles/2002/0602/0602_001.htm

It doesn't discuss counter-steering, but it does talk about proper body position when corning:

"Contrary to what a lot of beginners think, the movement of the lower body (legs and buttocks) is not a shift off the seat and away from the bike but rather a rotation around the tank. It’s a swivel. Instead, focus on rotating hips and legs so that the forward leg corresponds to the turn direction. I.e., when setting up for a left corner, the left leg and knee are forward on the tank; the right inner thigh is pressed firmly against the right rear of the tank."
 

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Originally posted by TStylin

Here's an article you may find interesting. It was written by a STAR Motorcycle School instructor.

http://www.trackjunkie.com/features/articles/2002/0602/0602_001.htm

It doesn't discuss counter-steering, but it does talk about proper body position when corning:

"Contrary to what a lot of beginners think, the movement of the lower body (legs and buttocks) is not a shift off the seat and away from the bike but rather a rotation around the tank. It’s a swivel. Instead, focus on rotating hips and legs so that the forward leg corresponds to the turn direction. I.e., when setting up for a left corner, the left leg and knee are forward on the tank; the right inner thigh is pressed firmly against the right rear of the tank."
Granted I am nowhere near as experienced a rider as this guy, but that statement is total crap. First of all, if your knee is on the tank it's sort of hard to drag it. Also, to drag your knee you have to stick it out, which will rotate your hips the exact opposite way he is talking about. There's a reason it's called 'hanging off'. It's because you move your body towards the inside of the turn, which moves the center of mass of the bike + rider inside with relation to the center of mass of the bike, allowing for greater lean angle and thus higher cornering speeds before the bike starts dragging.

A lot of racers are good because of practice and experience, but can't explain worth shit what they are doing to go fast. This guy sounds like one of them.



No, I don't want a pickle,
Just want to ride on my motorsickle.
 

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The idea behind GYKD or 'Get Your Knee Down' as we call it in the UK (kneedragging) is :-

1) To lower the centre of gravity of the bike and rider whilst keeping the bike upright(ish), This gives the tires a bigger contact patch with the road which lowers the stress on them and allows you to ride it faster on the corner (more grip = higher speed).

2)The Knee acts as a sensor and can tell you how far over you are leaning and whether you are going faster (circuit riding). The less you stick your knee out before it touches the ground, the faster you are riding.[8D]

3) It looks good:D

Ash


 

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"Granted I am nowhere near as experienced a rider as this guy, but that statement is total crap."

Gotta disagree with you on this...how he explains it is how to do it...I spent two days at STAR doing just like it says....It gives a very smooth transtion moving around on the bike...I can move from one side to the other at any speed (5 mph even) and not effect the balance of the bike
 

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cracked lid,

if you had actually read the article before you slammed it you would have read how to get your knee down using this technique. Watch the MotoGP or AMA guys sometime, or even look at their pictures in magazines. They swivel the tank.
 

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Granted I am nowhere near as experienced a rider as this guy, but that statement is total crap. First of all, if your knee is on the tank it's sort of hard to drag it...
Obviously, you need to remove your inside knee from the tank before you can drag it, but he's explaining how to set up for a turn. This body position allows you to still grip the tank tightly with your legs and brake hard then swing your knee out as you're tipping it in and getting back on the throttle.

It really smooths things out when you get your ass over early. One of the most extreme examples of this is Rich Oliver in AMA 250GP. He rarely ever with both cheeks on the seat. It works well for him, and you should do what works for you.

Back to the topic: Counter-steering, as everything else in life, should be used in moderation. You don't want to be upsetting your contact patch too much in a turn. Basically you use it to tip in, then use your body position to keep it turning.

Everyone perceives the mechanics of riding differently, but the worst thing you can do is choke the bike by tightly gripping the bars and forcing counter-steer all the way through a turn.

Just my $.02

Red
AMA #439394
 

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Originally posted by Poch

Shifting your weight is very helpful when turning at speed, so that you don't have to lean the bike over as much and have less traction. The more upright the bike, the better your traction.

The weight shift happens at the point that you lean the bike over; once leaned over, you can stay in the same position (half-assed off the seat [^]), but please be aware of placing some weight on the outside footpeg as well. This helps stabilize the bike by placing some weight against any tendency to slide out.

Hope that made sense ...
LOL...weighting the outside peg...? rasing the centre of gravity..

weight both pegs but weight the inside/lower peg more to lower the center of gravity m8...

i agree with everything ash said....but would like to add that by hanging off the bike allows the suspension of the bike to work better...
 

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24193c,

Half-assed as that may seem (pun intended), it works for me once the steering is done and I'm just maintaining the line. And it prepares me for when I straighten the bike back up [^]
 

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I agree with Poch,
What do you guys think about this, tell me if you think I'm Nutz:

When pressure is placed on the outer peg, WITH the outer leg hugging the tank (like it's supposed to), the forces of your weight act perpendicularly to the lean angle of the bike, further planting the tires on the road.
When the pressure is on the inside peg, even though the center of gravity is lower, forces of you weight are more parallel to the lean angle, helping the tires get loose and giving a better chance of a slide under power.

I know the few times I've rode a dirt bike, if I wanted the back tire to break loose FAST in a turn for a cool donught or to pwer slide through a turn, putting weight on the inside peg would help more than the outer peg. That's for getting loose though, the opposite of what we all want.
 

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i'll try weighting the outside peg next time i'm out...see what difference it makes...i normally try to kinda lift my arse off the seat slightly so all my weight is going through the pegs and not my arse...although i seem to weight the inside peg more...
by lifting out of the seat slighty i feel like the bike handles bumps in corners better

does ne1 else try to lift out of the seat when cornering..?
 

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24193c,

Tried that a couple of times, and while it helps a lot in lowering the center of gravity of the bike because your weight is done low on your feet, I personally found it difficult because I have to hang on more with my outer thigh and arms, resulting in unwanted counterbalance at the outer thigh and sometimes unwanted steering input at the handlebars.

The bike WOULD handle bumps better in corners if you're off the seat because your legs are providing their own suspension action -- mountain bike and MX stylee. But I've found that, once I've scooted my weight over, and I'm on the gas, weight on the outside peg, the suspension tracks great.

Hope you find success with the experiment, bro.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Originally posted by rdandy5875

I agree with Poch,
What do you guys think about this, tell me if you think I'm Nutz:

When pressure is placed on the outer peg, WITH the outer leg hugging the tank (like it's supposed to), the forces of your weight act perpendicularly to the lean angle of the bike, further planting the tires on the road.
When the pressure is on the inside peg, even though the center of gravity is lower, forces of you weight are more parallel to the lean angle, helping the tires get loose and giving a better chance of a slide under power.

I know the few times I've rode a dirt bike, if I wanted the back tire to break loose FAST in a turn for a cool donught or to pwer slide through a turn, putting weight on the inside peg would help more than the outer peg. That's for getting loose though, the opposite of what we all want.
Nah, you're not nuts. At least not on this point.[:p] There is some noted benefit of weight on the outside peg. It isn't anything drastic, but sometimes the smallest things make all the difference.
 

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Well I think your all Nutz:D. I have shown a few friends how to do the Knee down and one who has a ZX9R (who also does a lot of Motorcrossing) Has tried it all different ways. He was downright scary to watch as he was lifting his feet of the pegs in an attempt to hang off and was wobbling all over the place.

The way I see it is that when you are stood up (not riding, just standing still), you have good balance when you have 2 feet on the ground, when you lift a foot, you become unstable and wobble around as the brain has learnt to balance with 2 feet planted. On the bike, the same applies, and when the bike is cornering, you need to carry a little weight on both feet for the brain to make sense of this, as when you are cornering you are fighting inertia, not so much gravity. The pressure on the soles of your feet help you to figure if you are falling into the corner or pushing out of it.

Carry a little weight on your feet, but don't stand up in the saddle.

Does this make sense ?

Ash


 

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lol...that would be funny standing up at full lean :).. it would be a good trick...

although i've seen a friend who rides mx abit try a foot out cornering technique on a sports bike...it wasn't pretty..but it was funny.. (also it wasn't very quick)

what i'm getting at is having all the weight through the pegs with the same kinda force you feel when you ride along and push down hard on the pegs..with the bum kinda resting/hovering on the seat, not really applying any pressure through the seat...does this make sense?

ash, your two feet reasoning makes sense to me..

it could be i'm putting too much weight on my pegs...but how much is too much...? this could explain why i feel i can put more weight on the inside peg..?
 
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