Countersteering
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Hello.
Im new to riding motorcycles but I just finished taking the MSF class.
Ive been researching about countersteering for about 3 days straight and its given me a huge freaking headache.
I understand how to countersteer(push left to go left, etc)
And I kind of understand the whole gyroscope effect. As you push left, a force hits the left side of the wheel causing the wheel to lean into it.
I also understand that countersteering is the only way to turn a motorcycle past 10 mph.
With all of these things things in mind, DOESNT EVERYONE COUNTERSTEER??????AND HOW DOES ONE "FAIL" TO CONTERSTEER???PUSH LEFT TO GO LEFT AND RIGHT TO GO RIGHT< DOESNT SEEM THAT HARD TO ME.
Sorry guys it just seems to me like everyone blows countersteering out of proportion, when in fact its pretty simple. It also has been driving me nuts and sometimes confused because I thought about it WAY to much.
Sixxer
Im new to riding motorcycles but I just finished taking the MSF class.
Ive been researching about countersteering for about 3 days straight and its given me a huge freaking headache.
I understand how to countersteer(push left to go left, etc)
And I kind of understand the whole gyroscope effect. As you push left, a force hits the left side of the wheel causing the wheel to lean into it.
I also understand that countersteering is the only way to turn a motorcycle past 10 mph.
With all of these things things in mind, DOESNT EVERYONE COUNTERSTEER??????AND HOW DOES ONE "FAIL" TO CONTERSTEER???PUSH LEFT TO GO LEFT AND RIGHT TO GO RIGHT< DOESNT SEEM THAT HARD TO ME.
Sorry guys it just seems to me like everyone blows countersteering out of proportion, when in fact its pretty simple. It also has been driving me nuts and sometimes confused because I thought about it WAY to much.
Sixxer
Your right. Everyone countersteers to some extent. The more agressively you ride the more you will actually "steer" the bike at the beginning of the turn. When you ride slow you lean first and the kinda push. When you wanna ride fast you turn first and then lean. The object is to get the bike leaned and stable as quickly as possible.
For more on countersteering, check out this long thread on r1-forum.com, in which Keith Code, Dan Kyle, Max McAllister, Andrew Trevitt, and winders are taking part.
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To sum it all up: At speed, you turn the bars left and lean right to go right; you turn the bars right and lean left to go left.
Yeah, if you try steering a sport bike like you steer a bicycle, you will find yourself off the road pretty quickly.
Yeah, if you try steering a sport bike like you steer a bicycle, you will find yourself off the road pretty quickly.
There is a book out called "Twist of the wrist" by Keith Code that explains counter steering and you can also get the video by him which shows the effects. If you have a lot of extra cash to lay down you can check out his riding school at California Superbike racing school. Good luck. By the way counter steering does work!!!
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Countersteer: Think of it as something you do intuitively with body lean. If you lean over to the left of the bike (and hopefully are trying to turn left), your weight shifts onto your left hand and left leg. In essence you are pressing down / forward on the left bar, whether you know it or not, by leaning your body (which is an intuitive action to turn a motorbike).
Now in more extreme circumstances you have to really break down what exactly you are doing. Have you ever tried turning at 90 mph or greater? You'll find that it's quite difficult to rely on bodylean alone to begin the bike to lean because at the greater the speed, the greater the tendency the bike has to stay upright. At these speeds the weight your body naturally transfers into your left arm by leaning left isn't great enough and you have to physically MUSCLE the left handle bar forward to get the bike to begin to lean left. That is the only reason why countersteering feels awkward at high speeds, yet still works, while at lower speeds it is done naturally through body lean. This is something you just have to experience yourself by riding at higher speeds and trying it out.
Now in more extreme circumstances you have to really break down what exactly you are doing. Have you ever tried turning at 90 mph or greater? You'll find that it's quite difficult to rely on bodylean alone to begin the bike to lean because at the greater the speed, the greater the tendency the bike has to stay upright. At these speeds the weight your body naturally transfers into your left arm by leaning left isn't great enough and you have to physically MUSCLE the left handle bar forward to get the bike to begin to lean left. That is the only reason why countersteering feels awkward at high speeds, yet still works, while at lower speeds it is done naturally through body lean. This is something you just have to experience yourself by riding at higher speeds and trying it out.
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being a bit of a novice still and having come off last week i probably shouldnt comment on this but according to my instructor when i took my direct access last year everyone countersteers you just dont realise it
as for turning the wheel in the opposite direction from the turn he said you shouldnt really make an effort to turn, just put more pressure on the grip on the side your leaning on.
as for turning the wheel in the opposite direction from the turn he said you shouldnt really make an effort to turn, just put more pressure on the grip on the side your leaning on.
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saying that hooligans prob right about higher speed turns
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and having just read his full explanation i now realise hes just explained it alot better than me(can also probably execute it alot better than me)
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Hell, that's one of the first things I learned. My father is an MSF instructor (for over 10 years now). He drilled all that stuff into my head from a young age. And it's one of the things they teach you in MSF classes. Most people that have no clue look at me funny when I explain to the look left, push left, go left. It's something you end up doing without thinking about it in even a short period of time.
Well straight up I am no expert but this is what i've been taught over the past few weeks at the Q-Ride Course in QLD, AUS. As everyone is saying when counter-steering push left, go left. But from what i've been told from my instructors, your ass shouldn't leave the middle position of the seat to lean into the corner. You should only be using from your hip upwards as for which way you want to lean.
And with that, you should be leaning away from the corner trying to stay further upright to keep balance upwards on the bike preventing getting too low. Countersteering alone will turn as sharp as you need, no need to lean into the corner.
I've actually been debating this fact about pushing left to turn left with a friend and they're not liking me too much because I keep telling them that they're wrong, that you do not turn the bars right in order to go right.. I should put a large bet on this =)
And with that, you should be leaning away from the corner trying to stay further upright to keep balance upwards on the bike preventing getting too low. Countersteering alone will turn as sharp as you need, no need to lean into the corner.
I've actually been debating this fact about pushing left to turn left with a friend and they're not liking me too much because I keep telling them that they're wrong, that you do not turn the bars right in order to go right.. I should put a large bet on this =)
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Yeah, most people think riding anything with two wheels is just like riding a bike. "If I want to turn left, I will turn my handlebars to make my front tire point left." Since most people know how to ride a bicycle, most people think they have an idea how to ride a motorcycle.
Unbeknownst to them, though, there is a tad more to it than balancing on two wheels.
Unbeknownst to them, though, there is a tad more to it than balancing on two wheels.
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