[swjohnsey]

There has been a little discussion about the Flo-Commander by a guy trying to sell them. A similar discussion occured on other boards. Here is a link to a thread where a fellow actually installed one on a ZX-9R and did some dyno testing. If you do a search for "Flo-Commander" you can pull up the other threads.

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55036&highlight=Flo+Commander

 

[Weezy]

I was looking into one of those at their website, but they don't make one for the '95 6r, do they?

 

[Dave Leonard]

Wheezy,
Their website indicates the ZX-6 kit for 98-02. Some machines can present a real problem if it requires different adapters or some other 'one-of-a-kind' application. In your case I'm sure it's only a matter of the valve's mounting bracket. They will gladly design yours for you as this gives them the opportunity to add one more to their list. I would call them directly and find out for sure. I just sent them the airbox and carbs off a ZX-7 for the same reason.

swjohnsey,
Congratulations, you actually found someone with a less than enthusiastic application of the Flo-Comm. If there any are any out there to be found, I knew you could do it. Hatred is a pretty powerful force. After doing a search on the [www.zx1112.bigbikeworld.com/forum/index.asp] under just Flow Commander I found literally dozens of Flo-Commander topics covering everything from installation, Dyno testing, and operating principals. This is, by far, the most compressive coverage anywhere on this subject. And again, I have to correct your deliberate dishonesty when you continue the say that I'm trying to see something. I am only endorsing the product. Call Flo-Commander if you have the slightest interest in being truthful. I am a 'customer' of theirs only. I do enjoy pushing this product as well as BG44k, Joe Rocket Phoenix jackets, etc. and anything else that I believe others might enjoy or benefit from. I also highly recommend the installation of jets kits and under a different format I’m sure you’d be accusing me of trying to ‘sell’ these also.

 

[eltorito]

Well I received the reply from the Flo-Comm people and what a bad taste of mouth do I have. I asked a couple of questions that I thought were valid and with the best intention in the world and this is what I get. What it seems funny to me is that this guy says that he has no time to answer my "silly" question. So much for professionalism. Well I let you guys judge for yourselves. First lines are my questions and then his reply.


Have you installed this product on a 2002 ZX6R? Do you have Dyno sheets of before and after? Do you guarantee HP gain?


Well. I normally wouldn`t take the time (as I don`t have the time for silliness) to ans. a question like this.
This is the sort of question another co. that`s in this type business would ask just for laughs. Either way, I
will only ans. one time. Does ANY company that you know of, guarantee HP, more TQ, Smoother acceleration
etc. etc.if you install their product, (without adding, "if installed properly or something to that effect)?? Thats like
asking the makers of the highest quality brand heavy barreled bench-rest rifle in the world, if they guarantee you`ll
have tighter groups if you buy their gun!?!?!?!?! well, if can`t lay it up on your sand bags, and put good ammo in it,
and know how to zero in, is it going to shoot tight groups??? need I say more? Does Dunlop guarantee you`ll
go faster if you install their tires??? In my eyes, only a fool would give an open "yes" to a loaded question like that.
We don`t spread any false "hype" or cut down other co.`s products even if they are, well, not too good of quality.
We`ll basically let the Flo-Commanders speak for themselves, and let the jealous companies who openly try to cut
down technology that they don`t understand squawk all they want. I`ve got some print from the Internet, where people
have made fools of themselves for their opinions, then, it came right back and bite them back, as theyv`e been proven
fools, not by us, but by people/racers who have them!!!
What I guarantee is; that if your engine runs decent, and it`s installed like the instructions say, it will do exactly
what it`s supposed to, MORE HP, MORE TQ, and a SMOOTHER POWER CURVE PERIOD!!!!!, Why else do you
think we are selling these daily worldwide, and distributors and dealers are always calling wanting to handle them,
(although we won`t sell to just any distributor), they`ve got to be respected & well known in their country. You`ll
shortly see them all over.
Did you read the testimonial page??, get ahold of them, ask them how they work. If you want to know the truth,
I EXTREMELY UNDERSTATE how well they work, I let the product speak for itself. Several professional racers that
had their bikes already tuned to absolutely the best possible, after hours and hours on the dyno, who thought that
it would be impossible to get more that a horse or two more, got EIGHT HP MORE with a better CURVE from
bottom to the top!!!!!! We are not going to do things like showing phony dyno graphs, that if the public knew how to
really read a graph, under certain criteria, (that isn`t shown) would know is, well, what ever word you want to use.
Down the road we may post some, but they will mainly be ones from other shops around the world,,, for obvious
reasons!!!! YES IT WORKS !!!!! have a great day!!!

Steve Kesselring
Performance Design
1-334-693-9203


Let Saddam come and play!

 

[eltorito]

Maybe my questions were not the best but if I "correctly" install the Flo-Comm and I dont have any HP gains then I think the manufacturer should buy me a new airbox and return my purchase price. Wouldn't you all agree?

Let Saddam come and play!

 

[Weezy]

Ummm, yeah. I'd really like to have an A-hole like that representing my company. Must really boost sales. Yes, I agree w/you eltorito, if this guy really was a rep of the company I want nothing to do w/their product.

 

[eltorito]

And here is my response to him:

Honestly I dont know how to respond to your email, since I dont want to sound like a jerk. My questions stem (originate) from a discussion on a Kawasaki forum where this gentleman (Dave Leonard) was talking about your product. I asked if he had any Dyno graphs of a ZX6R and he said he didn't at the moment. I figured since you do testing on all models that you sell an FC for, then you might have a Dyno graph so I could post it on the forum for everyone to judge for themselves. I asked about the guarantee in hp gain because if I have my shop professionally instal the FC and do several Dyno runs of before and after and there are no gains I would expect my money back and a new air box since mine would have an extra hole in it. I wasn't trying to waste your precious R&D time. And to avoid any further emails from the people at zx6r.com trying to get some info, I am taking the liberty of posting our email exchange. This email included. Sorry for the inconvenience and hopefully you wont hear from us again. Now "Sir", you have a good day.



Javier Diaz



Let Saddam come and play!

 

[swjohnsey]

That was very polite!

 

[Dave Leonard]

eltorito,
I am a little stunned by all of this, but as a thought about it a little more, I'm not sure Steve wasn't essentially correct. Your question may have been rather 'silly'. For example, try and get Falicon to promise to replace your supercrank with a brand new one if your not 'fully' satisfied or if your engine doesn't run quite right. Or maybe ask Wiseco to send you a new cylinder because your not satisfied with their crummy big bore kit. Or how about a brand new head because your oversize SS valves didn't seem to make any real difference. I'm quite sure that all these companies and a few thousand more would all get a chuckle out of that one. Especially to ask for a new air box because of a 1/4" hole. I could see the concern if we were talking about cutting a 3 x 4 inch rectangular chunk out of the side of it, but a 1/4" hole would be so easy to seal up and in so many perfectly satisfactory ways. Personally, I would be embarrassed to even ask for such a thing, but that's me.
We seem to be getting way off track here. I am going to call Steve this morning and ask about this. Your request for some indication of anticipated improvement in performance with supporting Dyno curves sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I must admit I'm stumped by that one, especially from what I'm hearing from others as well as my own conversations with him. He has always gone way beyond what was expected. He even posted personal responses in great length and detail on the ZX-11 website and others. I suspect that he has learned, as I have, that many websites are indeed the worst possible platform to engage this kind of thing. They typically lead to almost endless questions and answer sessions only to be destroyed by the local know-it-all trying to impress his buddies. Even in his reply to you, it appears that his rather lengthy reply was far more than you’d get from most companies. Most of the time I can’t get any support from Dynajet and others for example, even when I’m trying to place an order at the same time.

 

[Rob Lee]

Originally posted by Dave Leonard

eltorito,
Your question may have been rather 'silly'.

I respectfully disagree. No question is silly.

Q: Do you guarantee HP gain?
A: Unfortunately, we cannot.

As you were.

 

[Dave Leonard]

Rob Lee,
What I was trying to point out is that a question can indeed be pretty silly. I've heard many questions bring an enire classroom into a roar of laughter. I've had many silly questions asked of me. Like you, I always say the same thing, "There's no such thing as a silly question", in an effort as to avoid any embarasment and then go ahead and answer the question. Certainly anyone in the Sales Departartment should know better than to use that phrase. But as I said, I have talked to him on many occasions have never encountered anything like that. In fact, I usually have to stop him as I'm getting concerned about the lenght of the phone call and the impact on my phone bill. The Flo-Commander instruction are another example of almost over-doing it. They cover everything in color, no less. His kits also include everthing anyone could possibly need. Even drill bits, extractors (where needed), and special instructions for those unusual applications, etc.

 

[eltorito]

Hey Dave, I am gonna have to go to the extreme here. Quit trying to blow smoke up my ass!!!!!!! In my first question I didn't ask for a new air box! And next, I am not a 16 year old so I dont need anyone to break it down "Barney Style" for me. The guy was rude and patronizing, there is no question about it. I guess it is too bad that it doesn't meet your vision of how he is. The question was simple, so that makes it silly? I guess if I wanted to I could reprint some of your posts and show you a silly thing or two. But i am not going to distract anyone from the real topic which is the fact that it seems your Flo-Comm people are not professional and want to push a product without supporting evidence. Nobody assigned you as their lawyer so quit defending them blindly. Unless, of course, you have interests at stake.

Let Saddam come and play!

 

[Dave Leonard]

eltorito,
All I'm trying to say is that none of these companies will guarantee their products when installed by someone else. They're not stupid. Flo-Commander has done about everything possible to properly and accurately represent their products. I also notice that you have said nothing about his last E-mail to you. It is also very long and demonstrated his willingness to accomodate you and expalin his position. Now you're jumping all over me for having the nerve to try to explain someone else's wording. Calm down and read more carefully.

If you wanted a conceded ans. or a uneducated ans. or a false hype, ans. I
would have said,
yes, I guarantee it. If you had really talked to Dave, and you don`t
believe him, and he`s a
impartial judge why would, you believe us???? What would it say for our
intelligence if we said
we guarantee you will install this correctly, (no one in their right mind
would guarantee, someone
eles`s work, that they didn`t even know, come on, doesn`t that make common
sense, would you?
Isn`t honesty the best policy ????????
The only dyno sheets I have are sheets that the customer didn`t want let
out. I respect peoples wishes.
As a matter of fact, I did just send out a sheet of a 98 ZX6R, as thats the
closest I have to your year
that would be understood.!!!!!!! The other bikes have had extensive
performance work done to them, and
would not be comparing apples to apples!!!!! WE deal in facts, not
hype!!!!! The sheet I sent out showed
what happened when a dealership installed a jet kit, and what it did, then
what happened after we got it.
The questions you asked are almost word for word like someone else had
sent a long time ago, that
turned out to be a "jealous" I guess, person, trying to give us grief. As
Nobody can HONESTLY
UNCONDITIONALLY guarantee HP & TQ, gains, if they can`t be positive that
the customer will install
it correctly. NO ONE, to date has called and said they didn`t feel a very
good improvement. So, that
should speak for itself. Remember me saying, I`m letting the product speak
for itself, instead of giving
out "cocky, pious gaurenntees`s" I would think, YOU would have appreciated
an honest answer to your
question, instead of the kind most would have given you!!!!!!
I`m sorry you have the attitude you and you could have joined all the
other guys with them installed on
their, ZX6R bikes, on the track and the street. Depending on how you
replied, and if you replied, I was
going to surprise you. Since no one gives unconditional guarenntees that
the customer will install
something correctly like you asked for, I thought for sure it was somebody
messing with us. As there
are several companies now, feeling threatened, because these are doing so
well, and their customers
already know about all the issues with their products.

I`m sorry if you don`t understand, we are not another typical false hype
company, and if you don`t want
to post this, I can have someone else post it, as I know a lot of the
people on the talk forums, as they
are happy F.C. recipients. You`re the first person in a year and a half,
that has asked, (legitimately) this
question, and the first to reacted that way, about an honest ans. I thought
honesty was the best policy!?!?!?

Performance Design
1-334-693-9203

 

[eltorito]

And here is the response to my response:

You may post this too, as when I wrote that repley, I wrote it as though it would be!!


If you wanted a conceded ans. or a uneducated ans. or a false hype, ans. I would have said,
yes, I guarantee it. If you had really talked to Dave, and you don`t believe him, and he`s a
impartial judge why would, you believe us???? What would it say for our intelligence if we said
we guarantee you will install this correctly, (no one in their right mind would guarantee, someone
eles`s work, that they didn`t even know, come on, doesn`t that make common sense, would you?
Isn`t honesty the best policy ????????
The only dyno sheets I have are sheets that the customer didn`t want let out. I respect peoples wishes.
As a matter of fact, I did just send out a sheet of a 98 ZX6R, as thats the closest I have to your year
that would be understood.!!!!!!! The other bikes have had extensive performance work done to them, and
would not be comparing apples to apples!!!!! WE deal in facts, not hype!!!!! The sheet I sent out showed
what happened when a dealership installed a jet kit, and what it did, then what happened after we got it.
The questions you asked are almost word for word like someone else had sent a long time ago, that
turned out to be a "jealous" I guess, person, trying to give us grief. As Nobody can HONESTLY
UNCONDITIONALLY guarantee HP & TQ, gains, if they can`t be positive that the customer will install
it correctly. NO ONE, to date has called and said they didn`t feel a very good improvement. So, that
should speak for itself. Remember me saying, I`m letting the product speak for itself, instead of giving
out "cocky, pious gaurenntees`s" I would think, YOU would have appreciated an honest answer to your
question, instead of the kind most would have given you!!!!!!
I`m sorry you have the attitude you and you could have joined all the other guys with them installed on
their, ZX6R bikes, on the track and the street. Depending on how you replied, and if you replied, I was
going to surprise you. Since no one gives unconditional guarenntees that the customer will install
something correctly like you asked for, I thought for sure it was somebody messing with us. As there
are several companies now, feeling threatened, because these are doing so well, and their customers
already know about all the issues with their products.

I`m sorry if you don`t understand, we are not another typical false hype company, and if you don`t want
to post this, I can have someone else post it, as I know a lot of the people on the talk forums, as they
are happy F.C. recipients. You`re the first person in a year and a half, that has asked, (legitimately) this
question, and the first to reacted that way, about an honest ans. I thought honesty was the best policy!?!?!?













Well guys it looks like if Dave says something is good we should just jump up and buy it. Second I guess my "attitude" in my response was the incorrect one. And third, if I had said the magical words then he would have given me a freebie. Too bad, I guess I will learn to live without my free FC (thats what I was trying to get out this whole thing, I guess??) Did I forget to say that no Dyno sheet yet!

Let Saddam come and play!

 

[eltorito]

If you all read my originals questions you will understand this:

He never answered my questions Have u installed the FC on a 2002 ZX6R? No answer. Do u have Dyno sheets of before and after? No answer. Do u guarantee hp gains? Very long answer broken down barney style. My first two questions just required a yes or no. The second just required a "Sorry Sir but we cannot make that guarantee. We stand behind our product 100%. If you are not completely satisfied we will refund your purchase price minus S&H." Would that be too much to ask?

Let Saddam come and play!

 

[swjohnsey]

This outfit appears to be run out of a shed in backwoods Alabama. I am surprised they have email. Doesn't sounld like the kind of company I would want to do business with.

 

[eltorito]

Hey Dave, you thought I was not gonna post his answer????!!!!!!!!! You just beat me to the punch. If you think that is the way to treat a "customer" then I hope you dont quit your day job. Here is the last email I sent him:

Steve:

My questions were simple and didn't merit your outburst of "honesty". Simple yes or no answers would have been fine. If you had said "we do not guarantee hp gains" instead of "does dunlop, does so and so, does so and so, etc..." "jealous company #1..."

Just because I talked to Dave doesn't mean I will run and buy any product he supports!? I will be more than glad to post all our communications since I have nothing to hide. Hopefully you will get over the fact that some people don't have the same knowledge of the inner workings of your bussiness, that way you will stop supposing that emails come jealous companies instead of real riders trying to get a little info. And in response to your hint about "surprising me", I would have prefered professional treatment and respect (since I am an adult at 31 years of age). I have been nothing but courteous in our exchanges, I dont understand the animosity and cannot comprehend where you saw that I had an attitude on my first response to you. Now I am starting to develop one since I dont like they way you have "talked" to me so far. Maybe I am just misunderstanding your tone or something to that effect. In any case thanks and if you still come across a Dyno graph for a 00-02 ZX6R of before and after, feel free to send it my way and I will be more than happy to post in the forum.

Javier





Let Saddam come and play!

 

[Dave Leonard]

O my God, I'm beginning to run out of patience here. Apparently any and all answers are somehow "Barne" answers to you, whatever that's supposed to mean. Steve went way out of his way to 'try' to explain his position to you. If someone ever came into my shop and started with that kind of nonsense, he would be invited to leave, post haste. I certainly don't have time for that kind of thing either. I think you had a predetermined, and dead wrong, opinion about the Flo-Commander long before you made the call. This negative attitude was spilling out all over the place. It was so negative, Steve truly believed it was a prank call. He apparently gets these from time to time as he said. I'm about ready to give up on this group, although I find it very difficult to believe that you and swjohnsey are in any way representative of the membership here.

 

[eltorito]

Dave,
If I need to read carefully then there is something wrong. I asked honest, simple and to the point questions. Why the long reply? Why beat around the bush? Anyway, I am fed up with the Flo-Comm, with Steve and with you Dave[}][}]. Till any of you come up with some Dyno graphs to support the product you all dont have a leg to stand on. Seems pretty amazing that no one in this board has one installed or let alone ever heard of it. Peace

Let Saddam come and play!

 

[eltorito]

So now you mind read, Dave?? How you know I was predetermined to be against the Flo-Comm? If I was, why did I bother to send an email and check out his website? I had nothing but interest to learn. I am all about making my bike better. So go ahead and think whatever you like since the bills come in my name. And as far as "checking" my "attitude" if I came in your shop, you would be surprised the little handful I could be.

Javier Diaz
SSgt USMC

Let Saddam come and play!