[Unreel]

It's hard...everyone no matter how much experience...from a day to years...wants to push that envelope to the edge...unfortunately some push a bit to far. I know myself that I've scared the shit out of myself more than once. It helps keep you in line. XtremeNY911 you made a great statement...know your limits and stay within them. Its so easy to crack that throttle and forget you still my have to stop.

Old enough to know better...young enough not to care.

 

[-gary]

Repeat after me.. MSF. MSF. MSF. MSF.

 

[XtremeNY911]

Hey hows it going. Yesterday was the very first time ive ever seen a motorcycle accident. It was a close friend to. Was about four of us riding in Yonkers NY. Stoped at a stop sign, took off and the light ahead was turning yellow. I was in the back my friend took off, didnt see the light turn red he got nervouse jammed on his breaks, all i seen was the rear tire smoke like hell and start to fishtail. He wobbled then smacked right into our friend that was leading. The bike fell on the side and flipped. The person he hit hung on to the bike, he didnt fall. Thank God that the only thing that heppend to him as a cut up hand and a broken pride. The bike is pretty much done, which sucks cuase he just baught it two weeks ago, yzf r6. Im still new to the bike world, so i take it you lock your rear your pretty much done huh? Its a shame, but just to share to other noobs, just when you think your getting good, thats when you get into trouble. My friend that went down was only riding for about a month, and he thought he was good and ready for anything, and sure as shit he went down. Ride safe, know your limits and stay within them. Peace

 

[micty]

Funny, -gary, because the MSF advocates holding a locked rear (iow, if you do lock the rear, they say just keep it locked), which is what this guy did. Would the result have been different if he released the rear brake right away (before it had a chance to move to one side or fish-tail), which is what I understand they teach in the UK?

 

[-gary]

MSF tries to teach you how not to get into the situation where you're locked up in the first place. Keith Code teaches the same thing in avoiding SR's. Let go of a kicked out rear wheel slide, and say hello to Mr. highside.

 

[alex2002zx6r]

gotta practice locking that rear wheel. i learned that if you tighten your legs you can control it with your footpegs and just hold it steady. i think the thing here is not to get nervous. i guess every situation is different. i know when noones around i fly down my block and lock the rear wheel just to practice. hopefully i wont end up like your buddy.

 

[josh1095_1]

ii just takes balance and experience to hold the rear in place. a newb is gonna lock the brakes and go down. he'll either lock the rear and take it like he should in a lowside or try fightin and end up flippin him and his bike in a hi8ghside. if the kid new how to do a stoppie he wouldnt have done that. just by knoiwin how far you can push your front tire comes in handy in some cases. i use both brakes about 75% front and 25% rear under serious braking conditions, like when i fucked up and am about to eat the bumper of a car ahead of me. the guy was prolly bused to a dirtbike or bicycle or something.

 

[XtremeNY911]

Yeah its funny you say that, later that night when everything settled down, me and my other frined went to this parking lot in our neighborhood and practiced braking hard, and locking the rear. Im still a noob so can never get enough practice.

 

[micty]

I know MSF teaches that if you release a locked rear, you will highside. But I don't think that's necessarily true. From what I understand, if you release the locked rear immediately (while it is still inline with the bike's direction of travel), the rear might skip or jump but it will not result in a highside. In fact, I think that's what the UK license test requires you to do - demonstarte that you can release a locked rear.

On the other hand if you are traveling at a cruising speed (e.g. 65-70mph) and you lock your rear, you will be fine if you hold the locked rear while the front tire is pointed in hte direction of the skid. But as often happens, the rear starts to move to one side or the other, and again, you would be fine while the front is correcting for this motion by turning into the direction of the skid. But at a certain point, the rear will be so far to one side and the front is already at the full turn, and the front will begin to be off the direction of the skid. If the rear catches at that point, it's the worst case scenario for a highside - rear almost perpendicular to line of travel (i.e., maximum traction if it catches), and the front tire becomes a pivot point or swivel when the rear jumps, further making the "jump" easier.

See http://www.msgroup.org/TIP100.html

The one thing that I am not sure about is whether the locked rear will gain traction as a matter of course if the front tire is no longer able to steer into the direction of the skid.

 

[micty]

An even better explanation: http://www.msgroup.org/TIP001.html

 

[XtremeNY911]

Highside? whats that mean?

 

[micty]

Originally posted by XtremeNY911

Highside? whats that mean?

A highside has 2 meanings. First, it can mean just any crash or accident where the rider is thrown up and over the bike (antonym: low side - any crash where the rider is thrown down to the ground). Example: rider traveling at 35mph. Car turns left in front of the bike. Bike hits the car. The rider is thrown over the bike. That would be a highside. The significance is that a highside generally results in much more serious injury than a lowside.

The second meaning is a specific type of highside that results from a locked rear tire that suddenly regains traction or hits a curb/obstruction, making the rear bounce up with such force as to throw the rider violently (like an ejection seat). Pls. check out the link above for a detailed explanation.

P.S. I strongly suggest taking an MSF course.

 

[XtremeNY911]

Oh ok thanks I understand now. Im signed up for the course, its just booked up for a couple of weeks.

 

[-gary]

Here's a example I found real quick: http://members.shaw.ca/zx12r/Highside1.mpg

 

[micty]

Here's another one I saw (not quite as clear, but I think the force is more typical) - www.gifs.net/animate/dowson.gif

 

[XtremeNY911]

Yeah he hit our other friend in the back on his bike then went down. But yeah he deff highsided. The person he hit stayed on the bike, how I dont know, the only thing that got messed up on his bike was the exhaust got crushed in a little and his rear right signal light came off. The way I seen it was he was going down either way, I was about 5 car lenghts behind him and I just thought he was gonna go down from loosing control of the bike but thats when he ran into the other bike.

 

[meangreenie]

911,

I agree that being over confident can get you into trouble. I once read in a motorcycle safety book, that most riders will crash within their first 10,000 miles...After I had passed the 10,000 mark without a crash, I pretty much thought I never would crash. Well I made it just beyond 20,000 miles, thought I was the best rider who ever lived, but it was then that I found out what roadrash felt like [B)]

You can lock up your back tire without going down. A little trickier if you get sideways, but if you keep things straight there's nothing to worry about. Back when tires were cheap, I used to lock the back tire for long skids, anytime a car pulled out in front of me. My goal was to scare the crap out of them, while I was controlling the actual braking with the front.

You never know how fast you can go, until you crash.