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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I dropped the bike a few days ago while it was running. I could not get the bike to start for about an hour after the drop (so maybe the carbs were flooded). It was really difficult to start, I had to play with the choke and throttle to start it. Then I drove it home and let it rest.
The next day I could start it, but it took a lot of work, so I decided to pull the bike apart and clean out the carbs (I was thinking the jets were clogged or something was broken). Now I have the whole bike apart, and I have the carburetor out. There is fuel in the carb (up the needle, and the diaphragm smells like gas), and there is also a puddle of fuel in the airbox. I managed to tip most of it out the hose that connects to the bottom, but there is still a residual amount left.
I tried to remove the airbox, but this is proving impossible without damaging it (yes, I removed all 8 screws and tried to pry it apart). So I have left the airbox open, and took out the carb (so the boots are open too), to try and air it out. I am leaving it out over night, hoping this will solve the problem.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to get my bike working again?
If I try and start it normally (from cold, choke open, no throttle) it cranks and cranks but doesn't turn over. Sounded like a flooded engine.

Also, I stripped one of the aluminum screws on the float bowl.... I realize now that I have to replace them with better screws! So for the time being I can't get into the float bowl, is this a bad thing? Should I bury my mistake, or try and fix the screw now so I can open the float bowl?

Thanks
-Brian

Edit: BTW the bike is an '05 ninja 250 zzr, with about 2000 km's on it.
 

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AhhH! You let the GAS drain out the hose on the bottom? Are you talking about the hose which allows water to drain out of the back of the air box... Or the hose that leads into the crank/transmission case?
 

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To start a bike that is flooded, hold the throttle wide open with the choke closed and crank the engine for a few seconds. Keep doing that until the bike catches, then let go of the throttle. If it dies after you let go of the throttle, start the bike as you normally would when the bike is cold.

yeah, which tube out the bottom of the airbox?? left or right side?? left side bad, right side good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, I am talking about the water hose, not the oil hose. I plugged the hole at the bottom, removed the hose on the right side, and tipped the airbox to drain the gas out. There was probably about a half a cm of gas in the airbox.

I've tried starting it as if it is flooded (choke closed, wot), but it still just cranks. How long should I hold the starter down? I've been holding it down for about 2-3 seconds, should I hold it for longer or will I risk burning it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So what should I do now?
The bike has just sat out for about 24 hours to dry. The airbox still has a bit of residual gas/oil, but I don't think anymore is going to evaporate.
Should I put the bike back together and try to get it to start? Or is there something else I should look at first?

I really need some help to get this bike fixed, but none of the other threads seem to cover what to do if you can't start the bike after a drop...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the link on the spark plugs. I had been on that wiki faq before, and done as suggested for starting a flooded engine but to no avail.

Tomorrow I will check the plugs. I am also going to check the battery, it may be possible that I have knocked one of the columns of cells over, or cracked the inside from the drop (the drop was pretty violent).
I'll report back and let you know :) Hopefully it'll be a vroom-vroom, and not a crank-crank-silence :p
 

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Thanks for the link on the spark plugs. I had been on that wiki faq before, and done as suggested for starting a flooded engine but to no avail.

Tomorrow I will check the plugs. I am also going to check the battery, it may be possible that I have knocked one of the columns of cells over, or cracked the inside from the drop (the drop was pretty violent).
I'll report back and let you know :) Hopefully it'll be a vroom-vroom, and not a crank-crank-silence :p
Never hurts to check the battery, but I would think if you did damage it, it wouldn't have enough power to turn your starter. That your starter works tells me you battery is good... for now. With all the cranking you've been doing to get it started, I hope you have a charger of some sort when it starts to go flat.

Very interested to find out what you find as far as spark goes.

997 reference to a pcar? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Never hurts to check the battery, but I would think if you did damage it, it wouldn't have enough power to turn your starter. That your starter works tells me you battery is good... for now. With all the cranking you've been doing to get it started, I hope you have a charger of some sort when it starts to go flat.

Very interested to find out what you find as far as spark goes.

997 reference to a pcar? :)
I don't have a trickle charger or anything like that, I'm just hoping it won't go flat on me :p I have a multimeter so it doesn't hurt to check the battery :p
It wouldn't surprise me if gas got on the spark plugs... like I said, the drop was violent so the gas could have splashed up there haha :p

Edit: Oh, and its not a reference to a porsche, haha... just three random numbers I picked so I can have the same name on every forum I use :p
 

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I don't have a trickle charger or anything like that, I'm just hoping it won't go flat on me :p I have a multimeter so it doesn't hurt to check the battery :p
It wouldn't surprise me if gas got on the spark plugs... like I said, the drop was violent so the gas could have splashed up there haha :p

Edit: Oh, and its not a reference to a porsche, haha... just three random numbers I picked so I can have the same name on every forum I use :p
Yeah, but the starting procedure for a flooded engine should clear that condition of wet plugs. You may have fouled them , but fouling both at once seems highly unlikely.

Don't forget to check for spark once you have the plugs out just to confirm your electrical system is working properly.

Make sure to turn your fuel petcock to reserve... you might be just low on fuel, maybe?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, but the starting procedure for a flooded engine should clear that condition of wet plugs. You may have fouled them , but fouling both at once seems highly unlikely.

Don't forget to check for spark once you have the plugs out just to confirm your electrical system is working properly.

Make sure to turn your fuel petcock to reserve... you might be just low on fuel, maybe?
Well I checked the plugs... they look brand new.. the gap is correct as well.
I tested the battery with a multimeter, its a little low but nothing to worry about there.

Then I fired the bike up with the plugs out and gave myself a nice shock somehow...


So with those two things ruled out, any more ideas on the problem? I really don't want to take this bike to the shop!
I have checked over all the wiring, there is nothing loose... all the grounds are in tact... this is really frustrating me now!
 

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Well I checked the plugs... they look brand new.. the gap is correct as well.
I tested the battery with a multimeter, its a little low but nothing to worry about there.

Then I fired the bike up with the plugs out and gave myself a nice shock somehow...


So with those two things ruled out, any more ideas on the problem? I really don't want to take this bike to the shop!
I have checked over all the wiring, there is nothing loose... all the grounds are in tact... this is really frustrating me now!
Did the plugs look wet with fuel at all? if the bike is flooded, the plugs should be wet with fuel. If they are dry and not black looking, try starting the bike normally using the choke.

LOL... should have warned you about shock possibility. If you have the plugs still out, insert one of them into the plug boot and touch the plug body against a metal portion of the engine and crank the engine. Look for a nice blue/white spark to to be jumping between the electrode center and the plug tip. Use something like a glove or rag to hold the plug while you try this to avoid being shocked. :)

If you have a nice spark, you definitely have a fuel delivery problem and we can work from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Did the plugs look wet with fuel at all? if the bike is flooded, the plugs should be wet with fuel. If they are dry and not black looking, try starting the bike normally using the choke.

LOL... should have warned you about shock possibility. If you have the plugs still out, insert one of them into the plug boot and touch the plug body against a metal portion of the engine and crank the engine. Look for a nice blue/white spark to to be jumping between the electrode center and the plug tip. Use something like a glove or rag to hold the plug while you try this to avoid being shocked. :)

If you have a nice spark, you definitely have a fuel delivery problem and we can work from there.
thanks for the post warning :p


I am going to drain the tank and put fresh gas in... you never know, there could just be a ridiculous amount of water in the carbs...

Oh and the plugs were dry... a little black, but not too bad.

I'm following the suggestions listed here:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Troubleshooting_101:General_engine_troubleshooting
I've done numbers 2 and 3, now I am going to try number 1 :p
 

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thanks for the post warning :p


I am going to drain the tank and put fresh gas in... you never know, there could just be a ridiculous amount of water in the carbs...

Oh and the plugs were dry... a little black, but not too bad.

I'm following the suggestions listed here:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Troubleshooting_101:General_engine_troubleshooting
I've done numbers 2 and 3, now I am going to try number 1 :p
lol... sorry bout the shock thingy. :)



if the plugs are dry, it sounds like fuel may not be getting to the carbs. do you have fuel in the bowls? you can check this by loosening the drain screw at the bottom of each carb. the fuel from the bowl will flow out an overflow tube.

Do you have a cali model bike by any chance? Do you have a service manual for your bike?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
lol... sorry bout the shock thingy. :)



if the plugs are dry, it sounds like fuel may not be getting to the carbs. do you have fuel in the bowls? you can check this by loosening the drain screw at the bottom of each carb. the fuel from the bowl will flow out an overflow tube.

Do you have a cali model bike by any chance? Do you have a service manual for your bike?
There is fuel in the bowls, although probably not enough from the sounds of it... I stripped the aluminum screws on the float bowls, so I can't take them off again without investing some serious time and a dremel tool.
They sound about 1/2 full...

I have a canadian model (zzr not 250r). And no, I don't have the service manual... yet :p

I am going to go drain the fuel right now then clean the tank and replace the fuel... hopefully this will fix it :p
 

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Disconnect the fuel line where it enters the carbs. On the back of the fuel petcock, there is a vacuum line used to turn the fuel on. If there is no vacuum there, the gas will not flow to the carbs. Stick another tube on there and suck on the tube... see if gas flows out of the end of the fuel line. While you're there,check the small inline fuel filter right at the inlet to the carbs.

Once you can verify fuel does flow out the fuel line, reconnect the fuel line to the carbs and suck on that tube to the back of the fuel petcock. Gas should be flow to the carb bowls to fill them up. reattach the original vacuum hose to the back of the fuel petcock and try starting the bike while using the choke.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
when I suck on the tubes will I be getting gas in my mouth at all, or am I merely acting as a vacuum and gasoline willl flow out the other end when I suck on it?

edit: oh and I have a hard time thinking its the fuel.. I did manage the get the bike started right after the drop... it just wouldn't start the next morning. Do you still think its the fuel?
 

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when I suck on the tubes will I be getting gas in my mouth at all, or am I merely acting as a vacuum and gasoline willl flow out the other end when I suck on it?

edit: oh and I have a hard time thinking its the fuel.. I did manage the get the bike started right after the drop... it just wouldn't start the next morning. Do you still think its the fuel?
You are acting as the vacuum source, so no gas in the mouth. :)

You need fuel, air and spark to run an engine. You've checked spark, you have air... only thing left is gas. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
well I checked all the vacuum stuff like you wanted, still no vroom vroom...
any other ideas? I am bringing the bike to the shop saturday morning
 
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