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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
READ: Good things to know about your ZX7-R

i just would like to share some info about the 7R that i've learned from servicing them and owning one myself. this is mainly based off the '96-'03 models, consisting of the N1, N2, and P1-8 bikes..

these bikes HATE TO START HOT!!. they vapor lock. its a fuel system design flaw. a little bit of heat shielding around the fuel lines ( and if you want, raising the float height a bit) tends to resolve this. if you get stuck somewhere on a hot start problem, remove the seat and let it sit.. removing the seat lets some of the trapped heat out from under the tank.

the OTHER hot start issue is low voltage to the starter solenoid. usually about 7 volts or so. it's mainly the wiring and being a piss-poor design.. sometimes voltage can be brought up by cleaning the connectors where the handlebar controls plug into the main harness up by the forks. most times you'll find corrosion there.


-the bikes run HOT! often you'll see a bike with a partially melted, stock plastic fan. when it melts, it'll lock the fan motor up and blow the fuse, usually causing more electrical problems along the way.
Muzzy makes an aluminum fan blade assembly, or you can just wire up the fan to run all the time when the bike is on.

locked-rotor current is typically 5-10 times what the normal running, full-load current is for any electrical motor. (fan pulls 4.3 A)

- these bikes are an electrical engineering nightmare! (at least to me, being that that is what i do..) all the bike's current goes thru the key switch. your bike will typically pull around 15 amps when running and everythings on. the thing is, the switches and connectors are slightly underengineered, and their ampacity (current rating) is lower than what it should be.

- your CDI has a reduced voltage input from a resistor in the key switch's contact block. if that ( 100 ohm) resistor burns up or the wire's solder joint snaps loose (common, unfortunately) you'll have 12 volts everwhere, and no power on the gray wire from the keyswitch harness. that gray wire has less than 12 volts on it (theres exactly 6 volts on it.).
this will cause you to

*not have fuel delivery, (the fuel pump is powered from a pulse fed, SCR "relay". the pulse is source from the #1/#4 sparkplug coil.),
*no spark
*and the bike will have power everywhere, but won't start. it will crank, however.. all day.

- the motors are noisy by nature, and if it slightly resembles an idling diesel, its not the end of the world! you probably just need a valve adjustment or need to bump the CCT out one click.

- if you ever get an e-bay motor, run the engine number thru your local popo. they'll tell you if the number comes up on their system as belonging to a stolen bike or not. you don't have to tell them you already have the motor, just say you're looking at one on the computer and was curious about it before you bought it.
i know a dude that had his whole bike taken by the pigs cuz the motor number came up hot. the bike, (a stunter 636) was fine and legal, but his e-bay motor was stolen, and he didn't know it. when the man blew up the stunt spot, they ran everyones numbers and his shit was seized.

- the '96's (RR model) flatside carbs are jetted horridly lean from the factory to meet epa regulations, but make it vicious on the track. thats why they suck under 4000rpm.


-these bike ARE equipped with a slipper clutch!!

- i think thats about it.. i cant think of anything else, but if theres something i missed, let me know!

i'll list a few common numbers, i'll put more here in time.

Battery, electrical, fuel, ect..
N model:8 amp hour,
P model:10 amp hour

alternator: 14.2-14.8V @ 4000rpm , 30.6A @ 6000rpm
pickup (trigger) coil resistance: 375-565 ohms (typically 460 ohms) (good for ALL ZX bikes with CDI)
primary winding resistance (sparkplug coil): 2.3-3.5 ohms
secondary resistance: 12k-18k ohms

fuel pump pressure:1.6-2.3psi (good for ZX6/R, 7,11, ZZR)
fan ON temp:199-217*F
fan OFF temp: 196-203*F

Fork oil level: 110MM from top +/- 2MM
Fork oil capacity (dry): 495mL +/- 4mL
top cap torque: 11 ft-lbs
allen bolt torque: 29 ft-lbs
stock viscosity recommendation: 5W kayaba oil.. 10W will work fine tho.

ignition info..

black lead:#1/#4 coil
green lead:#2/#3 coil
red lead: both coils GREEN TERMINAL!!!! very improtant.. backwards and you won't have spark.








be safe and have fun!

useful links
"frenching" the taillight (flushmounting..)
http://www.kawiforums.com/zx-7r/129995-how-french-tail-96-a.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i think i can get solid state relays in that footprint from a local supplier.. if i cross ref a compatible relay, you guys will be the first to know, and i'll either do the conversions (after i test mine out, of course make sure it won't fail..), or sell ya a blueprint/schematic.. or just send it to ya if you know any hot chicks that like ugly kids and the hookup works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
sweetzixxer: LOL.. no hate at all bro!! the fan is operated by a round switch on the clutch side of the radiator.. when the coolant is flowing, the heat level stays low due to the transfer of the thermal energy from said coolant to the rad core.. when it stops (when you shut her down) this transfer stops, and the temp raises... it doesn't have the chance to cool off, and the heat "catches up" with it. if you have a shitty battery, it'll kill it, but it'll only run for maybe a few minutes before enough heat is drained away to open the switch up and kill the fan.

cuseballer1474: no sir, theres nothing thats specific to the year thats problematic.. its usually all when the first gen comes out.. like with the '01-02 GSXR1000 & 600... they had alot of trans trouble, particularly in second gear.. it was all rectifed by late '02- '03.. i can't remember, but i think it even warranted a recall...

DWH_ZX7R: theres some slight-power type old skool shit you can do.. blocking the vents off at the top of the valve cover is said to produce more power.. how much and where in the revs? i honestly don't know... sorry! but ignition advancement, jetting/carb shimming, and full exhaust can put the bike over 130 CHP.

oh.. and Supa, dude. you're right on. i had the that lil gray wire that feeds low voltage to the CDI come unsoldered last summer... baffled me for a bit til i remembered about the whole resistor-in-ignition-switch thing. when i was test everything, i metered 15A of current going thru the white supply wire to the witch.. thats WAY too much for that gauge of wire, and the wire was physically warm... thats why alot of the times, you'll see cripsy plugs on these bikes.. my ignition switch plug was melted, the alternator plug... melted.. i am gona put a relay in the bike very son.. the relay will carry the load of the bike's electrical shit and keep the switch from doing it... if you guys are interested in this, i'll do a writeup when i do the wiring change.. i promise you won't need an electrical engineering degree to decipher it.. i'll keep it simple!!

thanks again for the good words and all everyone!!

be safe and have fun!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
DWH: i just posted up a valve job for the other guy.. i forgot his name, but its all there.. i will try to get pics to go along with it in time..

the setup is whats called "shim-under-bucket" and consists of a small shim that sits on top of the valve stem, held in center by the spring hat, and the spring and shim are capped by a precision-ground "bucket". the cam rides on the outside surface (what would be the bottom of a real bucket) the shim is captive when the bucket is in place, and only transfers the axial force from the cam lobe directly to the valve stem.
the stuff you've seen is probably the 10MM jambnut/ allen screw type shit on hondas and other japanese cars.. i work on those, too..lol

these bikes are really noisyby nature tho, but you should be able to use good judgement in determining whether its a valvetrain problem, or just normal noise..

as far as the stumble, that sounds like fuel.. does it do it when its cold? how about rollin on the gas slowly.. does it follow with linear action? if its sputtering and ackin stupid, i'd at least go for a plug change first to rule out the simple shit, then start to play with the fuel system.. could be slightly out of sync, or is having trouble switching from low to high speed fueling circuits in the carb... plugged jet.. something like that.




EZ: i'll definitely do a how-to on that shit man.. i don't like the fact that soo many of us 7-R owners are riding on something so problematic with the electrical system...
i'm tryin to put forth some good shit on here, but i have to be careful of what i post as well it seems... i can't post anything copywrited like manuals.. i'm not sure about indiviual pages, or modified pages from a manual, but you know i'll figure something out with it!! my biggest problem at the moment is fiding time and whatnot to do everything.. i'll get it tho...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
supa: thank you for the kawi mod site bro!!!

good shit..

nandez: man my shit never restarts when its warmed up.. i gotta find a cure for that.. it may be float related..

ez: my man.. i'm tryin to get this "new" motor (for the turbo build) to the house, and i promise to get pics for ya and go into explicit detail on this..
the "buckets" literally look like little metal buckets. they sit inverted and cover the retainer, shim, and about 80% of the spring. a pic of this actually is in the drag racing section in Denmah's "turblo" post.. those shiney round things in the head are the fables buckets i speak of sir.

fellas, alot of the time the bike just clicks and doesn't do anything, its the "reed" relay in the lil black junction box under the seat. the ignition switch rarely goes bad, but the relay in that box tends to go after a few years of service..

the resistors do burn up in the switch tho...

the 5 or 6 wires that run into the ignition switch are 100% indeed soldered, and i had my lil gray (low voltage) wire break off, causing erratic operation.. sometimes, just by turning the key, it jarred the wire into place. for the longest time. i could not understand why i had power everywhere, but had no spark or fuel, but the trigger coil and spark plug coils were good, but my 6-E's ecu wouldn't work either (the '93-up ZX6-E CDI works on the 7-R.. how well, i don't know, but it will run and rev..) .. the fuel pump runs off the #1/#4 sparkplug coil pulse.

like i said, the wire has less than 12 V on it. it the power comes in on the white wire, thru a set of contact, thru resistor inside the switch body, then to a solder post that the (gray) wire is connected to..

should you find this is whats fuct up, use an impact driver (trust me..:D) to remove the main mounting screws for the switch, remove the switch assemble, and take out the two tiny screws holding the shibang together and peel the switch apart. note the orientation of the contact blocks!! the stationary contacts can be put in upside-down.. the moveable ones also.. but theres only contacts on one side, and its keyed.. it's pretty much fail-safe.

If, the screws are snapped off (most bikes left kawi like this.. the screws are "anti-theft") take a dremel with a 1" cutoff wheel and make a slot dead-center in the screw.. just big and deep enough to get a flat screwdriver in and twist the screw out. they're not loc-tite'd like the main mounting screws are (thus the impact driver) a 3/16" flathead is usually thin enough to get into the slot provided by the wheel.. its only maybe .02-.03" big.. if that..

as far as a writeup, i'll gladly repeat this in its own thing if you'd like to see it separate from this.. i'll try to include more retails as well.. i'm just doin this shit outta memory at 5:30am...

i will start on finding a cure for the relay, as well as making custom parts (like 2 piece pegmounts with c.f. heelgaurds) and ignition advance plates and some other shit for performance.. i will be ordering a "rotary table" for vertical milling (so i can make the stock cam gears adjustable) in about a week or two, after my new set of Mitutoyo 6" dial calipers shows up.. (for machining)

gotta watch the finances, i got mad fines and shit to pay to keep me out of jail for stuntin the fiddy last summer on the streets...:(

i'll try to stay up with ya's.. i get 1000 things going at once sometimes and i neglect my kf bretheren, and i apologize. i'm just glad i can offer some help on this.. it does me good to know this shits useful!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
you're just not using the started to spin the motor.. you're using the transmission.

it all works the same tho.. as long as the motor spins by one way or another, the trigger coil will sense crank rotation, it'll signal the CDI to fire, and voila, spark and run.

i found tho that on a weak battery, it sometimes won't generate enough power to generate a decent spark, so bump starting won't work if you're battery is real bad.. (sometimes..)

it's hit and miss.. the stunter i rocked last summer ('00 F4i) had a shit battery, but a good push start, and it'd fire right up and stay going.. it'd fire up within a half hour of being shut off, too..

but my bike will absolutely not fire by push starting when the battery is weak...

go figure!! my skinny lil ass pushing a 511 lb bike around.. thats a laugh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
thank you, kawagirl!! like i said, i'll find out how to retrofit a solid state relay in there very shortly, and i'll test the resistence value of the resistor in the switch, and gt the correct voltages for all the wires when the weather breaks here soon... been STUPID cold in the shop..lol

ya know, the manual say absolutely NOTHING about the resistor in the key switch!!
not in the prints or anything..

oh, and supa, man, you've been awesome dude, and i appreciate the help and contributions man.
and thanks to everyone else for keepin me busy at 4:00am as your night shift guy... lol

have fun and be safe!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Man, I've never heard of any of these problems on the ZX-7?? Maybe it's the "P" model and up? I have a L2 model. Actually, the motor runs cool. Removing the thermostat in a hot environment helps. The fan melts because it's to close to the exhaust outlets and it's shitty plastic. Install a manual switch. That's crap about the current dude. The fan motor only draws 4 amps. I think the battery is only a 12 AH batt..This bike has the Mitsubishi fuel pump...I had the same type fail on my CBR600.

the melting is usually from traffic-induced heat or temperature switch failure.

you're absolutely right about the shitty plastic tho..

but, whats crap about the current? the 15 or so amps i metered with a $400, true-RMS Fluke clamp meter? i know that meter won't lie to me for the money and what it is.. that current was pre-ignition switch on the white wire.

the connector didn't melt for fun.

its a collective current from the lighting, engine management and electrical load, and fan all on at once. i was going for a max current draw on that test.

you're right on the current draw for the fan also..

but like i said.. the electrical system is horrid. hands down. as a bike mechanic and electrical engineer, i wouldn't lie to you, or anyone else.


the N1 and N2 batteries (stock) are at 8A/Hr and the P1-4 are at 10A/Hr BUT, at 6,000 RPM the alternator makes 30.7A (@14V).. more than enough to carry the 10-15 amp continuous load AND charge the battery..just in case you were wondering how a 10 amp batter can power a 15 amp load


:rolleyes:

these models are for from the '96-03 years.. as is my info, btw
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
as long as the impedance (resistance of a coil) values are within about 10%, you can use whatever you'd like.
the winding ratio willbe reflected in a higher or lower value between the coils.

if the primary (input-low voltage from CDI) winding has, lets say 30 ohms just for a number... and the secondary (output- to sparkplug) has 30Kohms, then you'll simpley have to meter out the experimental coil to see if the numbers are "close enough for gubmint work".
i'd at least try to stay at +-10% on the values.

you can go more, but too much impedance, or resistance, or however you'd like to refer to it as, will not produce a powerful spark, as it is resisting the CDI's output. too little resistance/impedance will result in popping the emitters of the drive transistors in the CDI, being that they're designed to run at a specific resistance anyway.

as well on the secondary.. lets say your primary winding is perfect. if your secondary resistance is higher, this means your coil will make more power...

theres more wraps or wire, thus more resistance and more potential to make a higher voltage.

if the voltage is too high, it will literally blow the gas away from the sparkplug, and you'll end up with ll kinds of crappy times.. if the secondary winding was way less, this means less wraps of wire, and a lower voltage.. this will result in a weak spark. if it's too eweak, the windage inside the combustion chamber will blow the spark out before it even has a chance to ignite the A/F mix.

so, without knowing the spec off the top of my head, BUT knowing how the electrical engineers at kawi think, i'd be willing to bet that the impedance values are pretty damn close between all of them. i can't promise ya anything tho man.. my apologies.

i DO have a guru in baltimore i can call tho.. let me do that today and i'll get back to this after i get off of work (at 1:00am)..

oh and just for clarification.. resistance is typically used to denote the stopping power agaist voltage in a purely resistive circuit, like a space heater, thin piece of uncoiled wire, or a circuit board resistor.

inductance is the measurement of "resistance" in a coil, either with or without a ferric core.

impedance is a function of resistance also, but is pretty much for AC circuits and coils only.

like a stereo.. the speakers are rated in ohms, but its referred to as impedance, since we're dealing with a coil of wire, AND the output to the speakers are AC, not DC, even tho you'd think so because of the red and black terminal markings. the true denotation of inductance is called a henry, not and ohm.

theres your bit of electrical engineering knowledge for the day!
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
chuck, sorry i'm never here man.. lol.. the valve job isn't that god-awful pricey it'll make you piss and puke at the same time. but if you sub it out to a shop, it can get to be that way.. the shim kits vary in price, so it's kinda hard to give you an accurate number on what you should pay for all the shims. sometimes the valve busckets and cam lobes war differntly and the shims needed aren't all the same size. one may be .00128 out, another may be .0025 out, another may be .00056 out.. its weird, man.. lol basically, just gauge them out and hope they're all within a range of tolerance so you can buy one size and do thm all with the same number shim to bring the valves into spec. i can try and do some research for ya if you'd like on pricing and whatnot.

it's not like super super detrimental to the motor, but you'll definitely lose performance and efficiency over time. it WILL get to the point tho where it will not be wise to run the motor.. lol.. but that usually takes many 10's of thousands of miles.. i'm not sure my 600 ever had an adjustment. i know i never did one even when i picked it up with 23K already on the clock. it's
got about 80 some thousand on it now.. almost 90K, and still runs like a champ!! swear to God it does. other than a clutch, it needs nothing and sounds fine. i rebuilt the water pump at 30K and thats all i've done to it.


wooster.. you have that common syndrome, bro.. lol. i've beat the shit out of my bike a few times. hate to say it, but i have.. lol.. but, i'm in the middle of an uber rebuild and all kinds of sexy accoutrements now, and have been busting my balls to make things better on this bike.. beating its ass is no longer an option of anger release. lol

anyway, yes sir. that little wire is in the 5 wire bundle that runs to the switch. should be a white, gray, brown, red and blue. everything but the gray will be at battery level. i think the resistor is a 98 ohm jobbie.. can't really recall tho.. i'v heard of them burning up, but i've personlly seen the connections come apart so far in all thecases i've seen., read, or whatever.. never saw a resistor burn up, yet. its a 10% tolerance (brown in color denotes that tolerance) 1/4 watt resistor. common component and super cheap, but i'd liek to think that it was one of the few "electronic" components outside the CDI that were sized correctly. that resistor, and maybe the SCR's inside the fuel pump relay. never seen those fail yet, either..

i can look up the resistance specs if you need them for the coils. just let me know what i can do for ya..

thank you for the kind words, guys! much appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
i think you have some wierd carb heater cirvuit for cold weather.. coluld be wrong on that, however.. but i think you do..lol.. thats about the only oddball item i can recall that would be present on any machine other than whats common around here..

shouldn't really have any major faults, bro. the bikes are solid.. not too sure on the JDM bikes.. i NEVER thought i'd say JDM bike... lol i'm used to JDM car stuff.. not bikes...

chances are that bike is uber minty mechanically being that its hard to beat a bike ass when its choked to hell and back...
if i find anything out thats out of the ordinary, i shall gladly pass it along!
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
post up man.. i don't think i've spoken to you yet about your machine?

ask away! thats why we're here bro...

at this time, you only have 2 posts.. maybe your first is a porblem related question..lol

gotta go look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Whitehendrix, i have the hot start problem on my 99 7r, clean carbs, new plugs, airfilter, battery. I stopped for gas yesterday and couldnt start again. i finally got it to start when i put it in 1st and pressed the start button with the clutch on the sweet spot, sort of a battery powered bump start. does this sound like it could still be the gray wire. Thanks for all your time and information.
hey man.. sorry i finally realized this was posted like.. last month..lol

i almost wanna lean away from the gray wire syndrome and call it carb tuning.. mine does it too.. i'm actually not 100% sure as of yet what the hell does it, but i recall a few people pointing towards the carbs as the cause.. as well, it'll fire rigt up when it's given time to cool off. i won't rule the wire out tho, but test it.. start the bike, locate the wires leaving the keyswitch and psh them around a bit, give then a light tug.. move em around.. bike shuts off you know you've got a funky connection.. it stays runnin you're golden.

hopefully i can dedicate some time to playing with different stuff on mine this summer and figure out why they almost never start when warmed up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
i have plans on building a "dyno" and getting my bike on it to load test it and heat it up.. i just don't have the time, space or money right now..lol.. when i do, ima definitely play with the carbs and do some different little tricks to see what happens.. maybe it's something stupid, maybe it's not.. i have no idea why the hot start problem occurs yet.. i can only guess that the heat soak is soo great that it throws A/F off to the point of non-volatility. i'd venture to say either lean, VERY lean, since the bike won't start on choke when this happens. i mean, soo lean choke won't help it, OR it's sooo slobbery rich that theres too much fuel and choke hurts more than helps. that kinda makes more sense on what i remember about it.. it's been so long since i've gotten to ride :(

it always seemed to fire up when holding it WFO, which would indicate a rich-at-idle condition. you're adding more air now withte blades opened up..

i dunno.. all i know is i'll set a full day to having a rigged IAT, EGT and O2 sensor array and plot what happens.. see if maybe i can be the person who solves this, or at least figured out what the hell is going on.

the easiest way to make sure it's electrical tho is to either try to kill it at the house while it's apart and look for spark, or wiggle the wires and see if it dies. if wire movement kills it or makes it stumble, ya know it's there. if it dies and you got the tank and all off and theres no spark, same thing.. (more than likely)

especially if it's a cold bike.. if it's a hot start, i'd lean towards the carb stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
welcome to KF!! i had that problem a bit too with the no-starting stuff, but then again, i knew it was the battery.. a jump instantly cured it.. if it wouldn't have started off a car battery i would have gone deeper into the electrical end of it.. as well, i metered it and i had between 10.5-11 volts..haha.. thats a sign right there!!

whats wierd is these bikes are incredibly sensitive to low voltage.. theres so many variable tho.. the gray wire isn't always the problem, but it's a good thing to keep in mind..
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Hmm.. thats a broad question. lol

oh, welcome to KF!!

ok.. uh.. is it when you're moving? at idle? in gear or neutral? clutch in or out? uphill/downhill?

lots of variables.. could be alternator noise, could be clutch noise. could be venturi/airbox noise..
 

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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
Does a 2000 ZX-7r have an auto fan turn on after shut off?
main power should be cut off when the key is off.. if it's on and the motor is shut off via the kill switch, you can see the fan cycle on sometimes due to the heat soak from the coolant now flowing over the sensor any more. the heat builds and has no way to dissipate..

Ok I think I'm on my tenth post now. Are these ZX-7R 's reliable?
they are if you know what to look for. i've NEVER had any trouble OTHERthan the "usual" shit like that silly ass wire and little things of that nature.

other than that, the bike is rock solid. i just modified the wiring harness to take some stress off it so i should see some more reliability now..

ok im back and i wore my brakes out past the pads and the caliper froze up, one guy said i need new calipers and someone else told me rotors. is there any way to rebuild a caliper?
well, figure out what ya need first!! you can rebuild calipers but you might have to think of some crafty shit to do it.. not sure if thers a kit available for the bike or not.. might be stuck using the little 2" sears caliper hone and some fine sandpaper and polishing up the bore and piston and putting new seals and shit in there.. might be something stupid and easy too.. almost just gotta take it apart to find out.



Thanks for all the info. I 've had a lot of bikes. A couple of Yamahas, 2 GSXR's, a Honda, and a few Kawi's. ive done a sorts of mods and engine swaps with the help of some buddies. I'm back to Kawi cause I can't help it, I luv the things. Just picked up a beauti. 97 zx7r from the original owner with only 14K. gotta luv people that don't ride their bikes. With all the bikes I've had you would think I wouldv'e ran into this problem but it never happened to me until yesterday coming from work. Thsi bike was gigin me some trouble starting but i was gonna wait unitl the holiday weekend to tear her down. Coming from work yesterday she coldn't wait any longer. couldn't gert her started for about 20 mins. your thread will make the diagnosis so much easier. Thanks alot.
glad it helped!! and welcome back to kawis and all man! (and to KF!) i almost needed my own advice, but after seeing it again, it actually wouldn't have helped me out.. so when i get back to the shop on monday ima memorize the color code for the coils and note which one actually goes on which terminal. i think the green terminal is a ground but i'm not sure.. but when i find out i'll amend the list and put that in thre.. good shit to know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
i had that today. i think it was lack of fuel pressure.. sure cranked alot tho before starting.

since it was already apart, i even pulled #1 just to see if i did lose spark!! i redid my wiring harness without testing as i went so.. at least it worked the first time! haha
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
gray wire off the key switch. with the bike on, and everything plugged in, wiggle a voltmeter test lead in to contact the gray wire on the back side of the connector.. ground the other lead.. should see 6 volts there.

it's not riveted, those are tamper proof screws. .the heads shear off when the factory torques them down.. all thats left is that little shit left behind. slot that with a dremel cut off wheel if you need to open it up to resolder the connection..
 
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