Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've have about 1,600 miles on her now. She had 2 oil changes and i broke her in exactly as kawi said to. Although I never got that 600 mile valve check because Everyone says that was a typo and its really 15,000. Well I have a very faint tapping noise at idol. It sounds slightly louder if shes not warmed up though. IS this something normal maybe to do with the fuel injection or something? or would you think this is valve tap? I didn't really want to shell out the dough just to have some shmuck rip me off. Oh I think you can hear it more on the left side of the bike but im not 100% possitive.
Thanks for any comments....well except for the ones that will say something like "sorry, I cant help you on that one" or "you should just take it to the dealership and let them look at it"!!

With great freedom, comes great responsibility.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
The 600 mile valve check is not a typo, it is IMO the most important check the bike will have. The first 600 miles allows everything to settle down after assembly before the bike is ridden hard. The only consolation is that a loose tappet is a safe tappet (it means that the valve is closing fully). A tight tappet will cause spitting back throught the inlet or backfire (it means that the valve is staying open) and will cause valve and valve seat damage (and loss of power)through scorching as the burning gas blows through the gap, and will require an engine strip to sort out. Whoever gave this advice that it doesn't needs the first check needs 'shoeing':(. The valve clearance tolerance is half the thickness of a human hair (0.10mm total) and doesn't leave much to chance.

Fooking amateurs [:eek:)][:eek:)]

Live to ride, Erm Erm, Where are my Car Keys ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Well ash...the 600 valve check is a typo...at least if you take Kawi's word for it :) They sent out a memo with a replacement sticker for the book...seems like it was only on some of the books. Some books already have the updated info where there is no valve check at 600 miles...only at 15000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
I am a toolmaker (Design engineer) for 15 years and before that a production engineer in the aerospace industry for 3 years, and I can tell you that in manufacturing that you will get high spots and burrs and pips thrown up in the machining process. All the moving parts coming together in a new engine will wear these off, and thats why the first oil change is so important to get rid if the swarf and debris which is a result of these lumps and bumps being removed. Otherwise why do we need a run in phase [?]. If Kawasaki has stated this, then IMO its because the dealers are creating about the extra work on whats supposed to be a free service (and a political decision not a practical one [?]).

I for one am amazed that this statement can be put out about a critical phase in the engines life. On the 15k service (which I did myself), 13 out of 16 valves were out of tolerance (tight), and the valves were supposed to have been checked at 8k as well(before I got it).

Ash

Live to ride, Erm Erm, Where are my Car Keys ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Dude no problem...but here's the deal... Yes there is still a 600 mile service...but it's basically just a oil change....and it wasn't free :(... Anyways, I hear what your saying about the valves...but even with my previous bike (7R) the first valve check wasn't done until about 7500 miles... I have never heard of a bike requiring a valve check on it's first service..... Now, in tommy's case...I know you don't want to hear this tommy, but I would bring it to the dealer you brought it to and show him...if it's nothing..he will tell you...if it is...it should be covered under warranty--better to do it now then do it later without the warranty. I myself don't hear this tapping noise you are describing...

I was quite suprised at the 15000 mile valve check myself...but it was confirmed...

Ash...this ain't a question of your knowledge...I'm just stating what was told to me and everyone else who bought a 03 ZX6R...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
look Gunamaniac, one can do whatever they want, follow the book or not. But what Ash is saying is absolutely without a doubt 1110% correct. The frist service, at 600miles or 1,000 kms, a valve check has to be done...it's your bike your investment....

I have had 3 Kawasakis, and had the valve clearance checked at the first service for all of them, and yes I paid extra for that....Human

WMRC Novice Racer #87

www.bcsportbikes.com/cgi-bin/bike.disp/37
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Not wanting to inflame an arguament but having read the post on this topic I am curious, I sell VW and they only require an oil change at 10,000 miles yet 15 years ago they required an oil change at 600 due to the reasons Ash stated. So the question is, is it that Bikes haven't kept up with cars on the Machining of the parts or is it as I suspect, that bikes are the equivalent of race cars and as such exert so much more wear on the parts therefore...etc...etc?

Jay

http://www.bikepics.freewebspace.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,606 Posts
One more opinion. I agree that it is a slightly loose valve. Valve lash tightens up as the engine warms up. If it were something more serious like a bearing it would get worse as the engine warms up.

One thing you might consider, it is pretty expensive to have the valves adjusted but not that bad to have them checked. You might approach the dealer with an offer to pay for the valve check if nothing was out of spec put have warranty pay if something needed to be adjusted so soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
I know this is going to start all kinds of stuff but I have been racing and working on bike for over 10 years now and most of the time when you get an engineer involved they over examine the problem...this bike stuff is not rocket science it is very simple it's a combustable engine....

Also the tapping noise mine made it as well with 29 miles I took off the cover and checked them and it was fine..... So don't worry about it too much also when you put synthetic in your bike it will really quite down mine only does it now when it is cold...

You guys need to relax a little he just asked if it might be a problem...

Small But Quick As Hell
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,599 Posts
Well isn't this the can of worms to be commenting on....lol.
As far as the noise is concerned all of us argee that it is a valve related noise.......I am a motorbike/ATV mechanic at the local Kawasaki/Suzuki shop....so I have some experience......

This past spring while doing a valve check/set on my 00'6R I had to set a valve on the left side with a shim that was wayyyy on the loose side,slightly over the spec. by one I think....but anyway,after putting back together you would swear that the thing was coming apart by the noise it was making......wayyy louder than the usual noisy Kawi motor....but still within spec.When the new shim arrived and was put in the motor it went back to the usual quiet state.......

So with that said, when a mechanic at a dealership sets the valves it can depend on how lazy he is as to how well the valves are set.I personally ask the person as to what he/she would like the guidelines to be....within spec.....or set to a certain realm.All can be the difference....more time consuming but worth it when it comes to efficiency and performance.

Also, the 636 has the same type of valve actuated thingy for the exhaust...KLEEN set up. Can this noise you hear be this......Last summer after uncrating a new ZX7, this particular one had an unusually loud valve tap from the KLEEN.You would swear that is was a valve tick, but was out of sync of the motor when reving. Some customers come in when they have bought new machines and say that the noise is new to them but can't recall if it was there before. One day they just noticed it out of the blue....this can happen.

If it were I, then as suggested drop by the dealer let him/them listen to it and asess the situation....if you feel a bargan/deal can be made with them as to checkin the valves the fire away it doesn't hurt ot ask.

Good luck, don't worry though doesn't sound serious or something to lose sleep over....but keep an ear on it and listen for changes.

Jason



Everyone has their own thing.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks EVERYONE for all your input so far. This slight ticking was present even when it had 0 miles on it. Its not very loud at all, but the reason why I was concerned is because one time I rode around for about 20 mins then I stoped the bike for about 5 mins, I started her up and about 15-20 seconds later I reved her in neutral just a little. When I did this that tapping sound got very loud and also faster with more throttle. I dont think it does it under a load though, or if it does I just cant hear it over the engine.
Also the other thing is now that I'm at 1500 miles I've had 2 oil changes already. How many was I supposed to have by now 1? 2? 3? Also I think at my next oil change I'm going to go up to the semi-synthetic motul 5100 oil. I have the natural motul 3000 in her now. Is it too soon to go to semi?

With great freedom, comes great responsibility.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Oh one last question. If this tapping sound getts any worse Could this be covered under warranty? If the valves shouldnt need adjusting until 15000 miles like the manual says, and if mine needs adjusting now than shouldn't that be covered?

With great freedom, comes great responsibility.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
I used to work in a bike shop and did more valve clearance checks than I care to remember. Most of the checks were done at the mileage called for by the manufacturer. With 90 percent of the bikes, maybe more, the valve clearance was within spec and required no action.

A 600 mile valve clearance check is a waste of time unless you have some convincing audio evidence to suggest otherwise.

If the bike only taps when cold or at idle, I don't know that that it is convincing audio evidence.

Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
I have a 03 6R with just 75 miles on her. and I've noticed this exact same tapping noise you hear. this being my first bike I asked around (no mechanics but asked all my friends that have been riding for years) they all seem to think that I shouldn't worry about it as long as it doesn't get worse... so to put my mind at ease that's what i'm going to do... when i go in for my first service I'll ask about it but until then it should be fine :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
Originally posted by winders

I used to work in a bike shop and did more valve clearance checks than I care to remember. Most of the checks were done at the mileage called for by the manufacturer. With 90 percent of the bikes, maybe more, the valve clearance was within spec and required no action.

A 600 mile valve clearance check is a waste of time unless you have some convincing audio evidence to suggest otherwise.

If the bike only taps when cold or at idle, I don't know that that it is convincing audio evidence.

Scott
Its alright for us to speculate on the possible cause of this noise and in all fairness, without listening to it who can be sure?. My bike was spitting back through the carbs when hot from 9k on the clock when I got it, and speaking to a Kawasaki mechanic, was told that its 'common on the kwaks'. When I did the 15k service the valves were tight and after correcting them to mid tolerance (or as close as I could get) within their stated spec,the problem disappeared. In the 3.5k since I did the service, the bike has never spat back through the carbs once. I will not dispute the posts of mechanics/ex mechanics as they have dealt with it all the time, but as an engineer, I can quite categorically state that you don't always get it right every time and cutting tools blunt in use on the lathes and mills. Things get squashed and rounded in use and the loads on the valve train is very high. This is why we grind and hone components to finish them.

Ash

Live to ride, Erm Erm, Where are my Car Keys ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
501 Posts
I think the tapping your engine is making is to let you know that you need to ride her harder and pop more wheelies (quit being a puss):D:D:D Just thought I lighten it up a bit

Let Saddam come and play!
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top