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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know of the actual numbers for the cfm for the ram air of our 6R's????

Looking for the estimate numbers for the 100 km/h(45 m/h) range.

This idea just came to me, so when I get the number's I'll let you know what I'm up to.


All help is appriciated.


Jason

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Simply multipy the area of the ram air duct by the velocity of the air.

Example = 3 inch pipe at 100km/h = 268 cfm

Who needs more cubes?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Unless someone can fine me a small fan that puts out 500-800 cfm the my idea is crapped out.....

Was looking for ram air effects from off idle....the technology is getting there.....

Later

Jason

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im alittle slow, whats the differnce between a supercharged engine and a turbo charged on?

I know supercharging doesn't produce "lag" like a turbo can....so a supercharged motorcycle engine would be ideal right?

why is it we only see turbocharged bikes?

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Turbocharge usually refers to a supercharger run off a turbine in exhaust system. Most superchargers run directly off the engine a relative low rpm. I guess the big drawback on bikes is getting access to the end of the crank to drive the supercharger. If I am not mistaken, there are quite a few Hardleys that run crank driven superchargers . . . and they still can't keep up.
 

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More air = more power (did I just quote K&N?) Supercharging is pushing air into the engine (a blower), whereas a turbo works on the other end, sucking the exhaust gasses out. Sorta the same thing if you talk about it in laymans terms. The better the engine "breathes" the more power it makes.

Both can make BIG power. The downside of turbos is lag...they need to spool up. The downside of superchargers is they usually are belt driven, which actually robs some of the power they're creating (more drain on the system).

I'm no expert on any of this, but I wanna see a supercharged & turbo beast :drool. I guess ya don't see s'charged motors on bikes b/c of where they would have to go. Not much room around the air intake on the front there. Probably other reasons too.
 

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While the turbo use the exhaust they pressurize the intake exactly the same way the supercharger does.

As an aside, some of the 2 cycle diesel engines used in locomotives use both roots type superchargers as well as turbocharges
 

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quote: Supercharging is pushing air into the engine (a blower), whereas a turbo works on the other end, sucking the exhaust gasses out.
So... does anyone ever tried an engine supercharged AND WITH a turbo? <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> That should be a real kicker, right? Blowin' air from one side and sucking it from the other... (sorry about the porno stuff <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> )

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Discussion Starter #12
Actually, a double system wouldn't work......the turbo uses the exhaust to spool up the turbine to create pressure for the air box...the supercharger does the same thing but gets is power from the motor directly.....good idea though.....

But!!!!.....Back to my mod idea.....I am still researching...but I think I am getting closer....the ram air tubes allow lots to be flowed...overcompensating.But the demand from the motor dictates how much air will actually be used.....According to "superford.org" our bikes use 184.77 cfm(at 14,000rpm)....stingrayjb says 268 cfm for 100kmh/536cfm for 200...so on and so on,for the supply factor...so

Depending on how much you ride over 200km/h there might be an application......the best a small 4" fan can do is something like 115 cfm....times x2....230cfm, so the supply is great enough for full motor revs....all below this, is free pressure.This all works as long as "superford" is right....will try other sources to see.....

Maybe someone can see a flaw in my thinking...if so please let me know....or help send in a better direction..

Later

Jason

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Double systems do work. They use them on GM diesels that put out more than 3,000 hp. I think the turbo output in fed to the supercharger input. It is simpler on a diesel since you are only dealing with air.

The ram air system on the Kawasaki's works like a turbo charger. At high speed the air is delivered to the carbs at more than atmospheric pressure. There are big leaks in the system. You can probably get more hp by just sealing up the leaks. It is effective on the ZX-12R and probably to a lesser extent on the ZX-6R.

A fan will deliver more volume but not more pressure. I think the stock system delivers all the volume the engine can handle.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
AHHH... you learn something new every day!!!! Makes sense though, piggy backing them together to assist one another....

I'm thinking this mod in "developement", if it were to work would be like the crankcase/reed mod.....not a world of difference but when thrown on the pile...all adds up...


Jason

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You piqued by curiosity. I read some articles by engineers that said that ram air was so much b.s., that it couldn't work below 300-400 mph. But then I found this article that proved that it did work, at least on Kawasaki's. Here is a link to the article written in '95 when ram air had just started to be used: http://www.rrzone.com/929rr/ramair/ramairexp.htm

I stumbled some discussion about sealing the ram air tubes on ZX-12R's and Huyabusa's and I plan on using some silicone sealer to seal the air box where the rubber tubes come through the frame. I sure it won't make a big difference but it won't cost much either.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
As far as I am thinking.....anyone ever scuba dive?

breathing is a chore....especially when you are working hard.....oh wait!....ever ride down the road with your mouth open??(under your helmet), and tried breathing.....very little effort to fill your lungs.
Now,as the motor is set idling, you hear and can feel the pucking from the ram air tubes....the motor sucking air.....working to get the necessary amount.Now, add a source to help this motor breathe easier....a little push, shal we say.....as long as this push doesn't become a pull at high rpm's all will benefit...???...right.?
As before....making sure the supply will always be greater than the demand.

My main idea is for the lower rpm range anyway...easier wheelies and take-offs to spook those bigger bikes...hell, lets get to the point of kicking some 750's ass(Kawi for sure...almost there anyway).

Jason

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Jake,

YOu may need to make some more accurate measurements for my thinking..I just plucked a 3inch pipe out of the air.. Need to measure the area of the ram air "nostrils" under the headlight. Like stated before, many losses so the velocity thru the rubber pipes that run thru the frame will be less than indicated speed.

Another note: fans do produce a pressure difference (else they won't work) however they need to be in a sealed system, else the pressure will drop down significantly fast.

JB

Who needs more cubes?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
True enough,......just step outside the box for a second....forget facts and exact numbers.....look at the simple picture....

Engine breathing through a system.
Constricting passages, plus air filter!
Engine working to pull the air from outside, to inside.

If one could assist the engine in breathing easier.....Helping to pull the air from outside in.

Sort of like using the reed valves to draw out the blowby gases from the pistons.Not your traditional way but it works.As they say....don't worry about making hp,try not to lose it.

I guess it is more like making the motor more efficient.....thus increasing the power potential......ie. ease of operation.

As far as numbers....3" is approx. the max of the tubes themselves...thus the most possible/least...compensate for both.....my system is quite solid actually....the power of zip ties.

As long as the numbers can be above the demand of the motor and not impeed the max effect of the ram air.......hmmmm all can be achieved.
Somehow.

Jason

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