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ratherberiding
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Just in case some of the newbies haven't seen it:

 

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fap-o-caster
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I rode it when I did a track day in march of 07. The noob class gets to try it. Since I already had a command of countersteering they didn't harp on me that much but it is surprising you see guys at that track day that literally were blown away by the aspect of countersteering.
 

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Before I took the MSF, I had never heard of countersteering...but I had ridden a bicycle before and had been countersteering for years without even knowing that I was doing it. When the instructor told us that we had to turn the wheel right to go left, I thought he was messing with us.

Anyways, here are the two things I've got to say about countersteering:

1) Any explanation of countersteering should include the fact that you only momentarily turn in the opposite direction (just enough to lean the bike over and start the turn). One of my MSF instructors was a dumbass, and said you need to steer in the the opposite direction for the whole turn. Do you need to countersteer to get the bike to start the turn? Yes. Do you need to keep pressure on the inside handle during the whole turn? Maybe. Is the front wheel facing away from the turn's direction for the whole turn? Hell no. It's just not possible. You would instantly drop your bike.

2) How the hell does anyone ride a motorcycle for more than a day and not know how to countersteer? Are there really that many people out there that have no idea how to steer their motorcycles so that it is now a skill being taught at racing school??
 

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Before I took the MSF, I had never heard of countersteering...but I had ridden a bicycle before and had been countersteering for years without even knowing that I was doing it. When the instructor told us that we had to turn the wheel right to go left, I thought he was messing with us.

Anyways, here are the two things I've got to say about countersteering:

1) Any explanation of countersteering should include the fact that you only momentarily turn in the opposite direction (just enough to lean the bike over and start the turn). One of my MSF instructors was a dumbass, and said you need to steer in the the opposite direction for the whole turn. Do you need to countersteer to get the bike to start the turn? Yes. Do you need to keep pressure on the inside handle during the whole turn? Maybe. Is the front wheel facing away from the turn's direction for the whole turn? Hell no. It's just not possible. You would instantly drop your bike.

2) How the hell does anyone ride a motorcycle for more than a day and not know how to countersteer? Are there really that many people out there that have no idea how to steer their motorcycles so that it is now a skill being taught at racing school??
Probably because you countersteer without knowing that you are doing it.
 

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It seems like breathing... EVERYONE does it but most people breath with their chest, only using the top bit of their lungs. When you learn what you're doing and work to optimize it, you get better, just like breathing with your diaphragm.
 

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When I went to MSF I thought they were jacking with me too...but then one instructor explained it more as a counter push...then a countersteer and it clicked. He actually drove with his palms on the handles bars only...and showed how you just push. Ofcourse you're suppose to grip the handle bars, but he was just overexagerating to get his point across.
 

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yea i remember reading about that when i was gonna try to make it out there to take the class, ppl would be amazed at how much you don't have to move the bars to get a bike to manuever, we were held up in traffic at the gap & i went around a corner no handed & a guy came up to me like "how the hell did you do that" i just laughed & said use your body not your hands ;)
 

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Before I took the MSF, I had never heard of countersteering...but I had ridden a bicycle before and had been countersteering for years without even knowing that I was doing it. When the instructor told us that we had to turn the wheel right to go left, I thought he was messing with us.

Anyways, here are the two things I've got to say about countersteering:

1) Any explanation of countersteering should include the fact that you only momentarily turn in the opposite direction (just enough to lean the bike over and start the turn). One of my MSF instructors was a dumbass, and said you need to steer in the the opposite direction for the whole turn. Do you need to countersteer to get the bike to start the turn? Yes. Do you need to keep pressure on the inside handle during the whole turn? Maybe. Is the front wheel facing away from the turn's direction for the whole turn? Hell no. It's just not possible. You would instantly drop your bike.

2) How the hell does anyone ride a motorcycle for more than a day and not know how to countersteer? Are there really that many people out there that have no idea how to steer their motorcycles so that it is now a skill being taught at racing school??
Sorry to disagree but you countersteer throughout the turn. See the following links:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=048&Set=
http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=196&Set=

ccla
 

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i don't get it. wtf is it supposed to be/do
it displays to the rider how little input is needed on the bars & makes the rider concentrate on shifting body weight & position
 

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I've always thought this was the coolest experiment to prove counter steering.
 

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i don't get it. wtf is it supposed to be/do
It is supposed to prove that the "only" way to effectively way to change the direction of a bike is by coutersteering. There are some people that think that you change direction on a bike with body engish (see what the guy is doing in the first part of the video). So Keith said, OK if you steer with body english, you should be able to do it by hanging on to bars not connected to the steering stem. Obviously that cannot be done with any degree of effectiveness as the video demonstrates.


Well JFT has a link to Keith's web site that explains it a lot better than I did.

ccla
 

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Got lime? I do
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It is supposed to prove that the "only" way to effectively way to change the direction of a bike is by coutersteering. There are some people that think that you change direction on a bike with body engish (see what the guy is doing in the first part of the video). So Keith said, OK if you steer with body english, you should be able to do it by hanging on to bars not connected to the steering stem. Obviously that cannot be done with any degree of effectiveness as the video demonstrates.

ccla
thanks guy's. it's just the first time i've seen or heard of this bike lol.

i remember seeing two guy's at the first of spring, riding new bikes (sport bikes). turning thru intersections sitting straight up and trying to turn the wheel to turn lol. doing like you would a car if it had bars instead of a steering wheel.
 

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1) Any explanation of countersteering should include the fact that you only momentarily turn in the opposite direction (just enough to lean the bike over and start the turn). One of my MSF instructors was a dumbass, and said you need to steer in the the opposite direction for the whole turn. Do you need to countersteer to get the bike to start the turn? Yes. Do you need to keep pressure on the inside handle during the whole turn? Maybe. Is the front wheel facing away from the turn's direction for the whole turn? Hell no. It's just not possible. You would instantly drop your bike.
:confused:
 

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fap-o-caster
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can a mod please lock this thread before it turns into a massive counter steering debate :D

Back to the OP, unless CSS has changed it, that no bs bike was an 03 or 04 6r. I got to ride it in the back padock area of Laguna seca when we did our 'off track' excesizes in between track and classroom sessions. Level 2 lets you use what I need, the lean bike. THink of it as training wheels on either side of the frame so if you push too hard, you won't fall! I didn't need the no BS bike, I needed that lean bike!
 

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fap-o-caster
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the lean bike also lets you "lose the front" and "spin up the rear" doesnt it? that'd be a fun sum'bitch.
yup. they teach you how to back it in, in level 4 I believe. I could easily be admitted to level 2 now that I have 3 trackdays under my belt, despite my slowness and phobia of leaning! But hey, that means I have a larger contact patch and better traction than the guy leaned all the way over. Probably equates to a 0.0032854 second advantage! They also have a panic brake bike where you can slam the shit out of the front brake. CSS is really pretty cool, they are more $$ than your average track day, and you get taugh Keith's way of things, and they really preach the TOTW stuff but you really can't go wrong with that anyway. If you have the $$ I do recommend them.
 
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