[seabreeze619]

Judging by my topic heading, you can easily assume that I'm a new rider... and you would be right, hehehe. I was just wondering if the oil that I use on a car would be good for my bike or is there a special oil that I'd have to get. The same goes for coolant. Your suggestions and useful answers to my inquiry will be greatly appreciated. By the way I have a green 02' zx6r and is just a blast to ride... the only drawback is I'm still breaking it in. DAMN 4,000rpm break-in limit!!!

 

[swjohnsey]

You will get lots of different opinions on this one. I use car oil. You probably need to use regular non-synthetic until after break-in. A figure I see kicked around is about 3,000 miles. As far as coolant is concerned, your bike comes with green ethelene glycol based anti-freeze in a 50/50 mix with water. Any green anti-freeze such as Prestone diluted 50/50 with distilled water will work fine.

Two oils that consistantly score well in tests are the Shell Rotella and the Valvoline Racing 22W50.

 

[Rob Lee]

If synthetic oils are used during initial break-in, rings and cylinders can glaze and never properly seal. Use a high-quality, low-viscosity conventional oil.

Regular anti-freeze contains silicate corrosion inhibitors that can damage the water pump seal. Use Pro Honda HP coolant, which contains no silicates.

 

[Andy_7676]

"Regular anti-freeze contains silicate corrosion inhibitors that can damage the water pump seal. Use Pro Honda HP coolant, which contains no silicates."

I thought this was only an issue with Goldwings needing special Honda coolant? I'm not expert just going by what others have told me....

My Drinking Team Has a Racing Problem!

 

[swjohnsey]

This is an urban legend that dies hard. All green anti-freeze has a silicate based additive package. The bike comes from the factory with green anti-freeze. If you want to use a silicate free anti-freeze use one that is orange.

The only problem that Honda had with silicate type anti-freeze was incompatability with a seal behind the impeller.

Your manual says to use an ethelene glycol based anti-freeze with a additive package that is safe for aluminum engines and radiators. Prestone Green anti-freeze is exactly that. If you are anal about it the Preston Extended life which is orange will probably work too. I would recommend mixing it with distilled water.

 

[GTIMK4]

If you ONLY ride your bike in warm weather then you might be ok with just distilled water. Water cools better than antifreeze.

As for oil - well I've heard many things, but one of the biggest reasons people don't use car oils is because apparently SOME car oils have lubricants which can cause the clutch to slip.



Edited by - GTIMK4 on 12/13/2002 20:26:31

 

[GreenEnvy]

I would heavily reccomend AGAINST using only distilled water.
Since the bikes regularly get over 100C, air bubbles will form in the water, which reduces its ability to cool. It's also more likely to cause corrision to your cooling system.

plain Distilled water should be used for track days, and not much else

-=Welcome To Canada=-
2002 Green 6R
1986 Gixxer 7/11

 

[dave6r]

using car oil in your motorcycle is not a good idea at all. car and motorcycle oils have different additive packages and this is a known fact. i have taken several transmissions apart which have had car oil in them and had to replace gears in all situations. car oil will also reduce the life on your clutch components as well. As far as synthetic oil, do not use it until your bike has at least 3000 miles on it, to let the rings seat, like stated above.

 

[swjohnsey]

Another urban legend that dies hard. The only thing special about motorcycle specific oil is the price. Any oil that meet the viscosity requirements e.g., 10W40, 10W50, 20W40 or 20W50 and carries the grade SJ or SL which by the way satisfy all the requirements of earlier grades SE SF and SF will work fine in the ZX-6R and fulfill the warrantty requirements. All this about friction modifier effecting clutch operation is bunk.

I use Mobil 1 15W50 as do thousands of other motorcyclist and have had no problems clutch or otherwise in more than 10,000 miles.

 

[GTIMK4]

quote:
I would heavily reccomend AGAINST using only distilled water.
Since the bikes regularly get over 100C, air bubbles will form in the water, which reduces its ability to cool. It's also more likely to cause corrision to your cooling system.

plain Distilled water should be used for track days, and not much else

-=Welcome To Canada=-
2002 Green 6R
1986 Gixxer 7/11

Good point - but would the bike get to 100 degrees if it was running on water? (Considering water has a much better cooling effect)

 

[GreenEnvy]

Mine did
I left the distilled in for about a week after a track day (where I had to use only water) and it still got up there, it's better, but not that good.



-=Welcome To Canada=-
2002 Green 6R
1986 Gixxer 7/11

 

[Rob Lee]

It was indeed a Honda Goldwing owner, a gentleman by the name of Carey, who first wrote to Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) about his five successive water pump failures. In their request for more information, the magazine received hundreds of letters from other motorcycle owners. After six months of study, MCN published their findings in their August 1997 issue.

First, MCN found that 99% of the failures occurred after the OE coolant was replaced. Second, in 99% of the reported failures it was replaced with either Prestone or Zerex automotive anti-freeze. In less than 0.2% of the reported failures Pro Honda HP or another motorcycle-specific coolant was used. Writes MCN,

Conversations with chemical engineers at Dupont and Prestone revealed that their coolants contain microscopic silicate particles—like a very fine sand or ground glass—which are designed to 'scrub' rust and corrosion from the surfaces of radiators. Their experts claim that in all their testing these silicates have never damaged seals or O-rings in water pumps, but they also concede that no testing has ever been done with motorcycle water pumps.

It seems likely that the water pump failures on Gold Wings are being caused by the silicate particles in the automotive coolants.


In later issues, MCN maintained that silicate corrosion inhibitors in automotive coolants can damage the water pump seal of the Honda GL1500 Goldwing in particular, as well as other motorcycles in general.

Several automotive coolant manufacturers now offer anti-freeze that is labeled silicate-free, such as Prestone Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant.

 

[Rob Lee]

quote:
All this about friction modifier effecting clutch operation is bunk.

I use Mobil 1 15W50 as do thousands of other motorcyclist and have had no problems clutch or otherwise in more than 10,000 miles.

In the article "All About Oil: A Chat with Maxima's Dick Lechien" in the August 2000 issue of Motorcyclist, the co-founder of Maxima Racing Oils writes:

As carmakers see greater fuel economy, the oil companies are using additive packages with a large percentage of friction modifiers. These are marked as "Energy Conserving." These new friction modifiers aren't good for engines that have wet clutches, as do most motorcycles. We've seen that these additives can plate-out in wet clutches under hard use, causing slippage and/or premature wear.


You can safely use any automotive motor oil that is not labeled as "Energy Conserving," such as Mobil 1 with SuperSyn 15W-50, which is the only Mobil 1 viscosity that does not have the "Energy Conserving" certification.

 

[swjohnsey]

Silicate based corrosion inhibitors are the most effective in preventing corrosion of aluminum. I guess this is why all Kawasaki motorcycle come with a silicate type anti-freeze from the factory. The extended life anti-freeze (orange stuff) is not as effective. The problem with the silicate type anti-freeze is that it needs to be changed once a year.

Most if not all water pumps have an o-ring seal, car and motorcycles. I defies logic for car and motorcycle makers to use a product that would cause damage.

As an interesting asside, my wife drives a Ford Crown Victoria with a 4.6 Liter V8, aluminum heads water pump and radiator, iron block. They specify only green anti-freeze for some reason.

 

[dave6r]

geez, why would they even bother making oil specifically designed for motorcycles wasn't better than a automotive oil. i would love to see the inside of a 2 motorcycle engines. one after 15000 miles of an automotive oil, the other after the correct oil. this is a fact, not an "URBAN LEGEND" that car oil is car oil, motorcycle oil explains itself.

 

[swjohnsey]

Why? Well one reason is money. Oil companies found that motorcycle riders are gullable. They take essentially the same oil, put it in a different container and sell it for twice the price. Who are you gonna believe. Your friendly local motorcycle dealer that sells the stuff of the chemist that did the chemical analysis of both. I have my valve cover, off and the cams out to adjust valves. The engine has more than 15,000 on it most on Mobil 1 car oil. Everything is spotless.

I suggest you continue to buy motorcyle specific oil for twice the price if it makes you feel better. It probably won't harm your engine.

 

[Grunt_99]

I have read some tests that seem to back up what swjohnsey is saying. It's not real cut & dry I guess, I have no idea how independant the testing was, but if I remember right it was by a big name motorcycle magazine.

The general consensus seems to be, if you wanna use syth, go with the Mobil 1, and it'll be far superior to any dino-based oil, even a motorcycle specific one. Better still, use a syth motorcycle specific - kawi makes one and there are others. Most people say to wait until X miles before going to synth. My local dealer suggested 10k kms, although if you go by the kawi synth, it says you can go from day 1 (if I remember right - I'm still gunna wait till 10k).

A guy I know just switched to Mobil 1 (the automotive 15-50) and he said he noticed (right away) the motor seems quieter and the shifting gears is smoother. That was with his CBR-XX Blackbird, 2000 I think.

Edited by - Grunt_99 on 12/16/2002 00:52:10

Edited by - Grunt_99 on 12/16/2002 00:55:14