Passenger Riding and Counter-Steer
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Personally I don't want my passenger to lean. They might lean too much and throw me off.
MSF says the passenger should lean with the rider. I only partially agree.
Here is what I tell my passengers. I have them "slightly" look over my left shoulder if I am turning/leaning right. And for a left turn/lean, it's just the opposite, I have them "slightly" look over my right shoulder. I say "slightly" as I am not actually requiring them to look over my shoulder, just focus their attention (center of body gravity parallel to bike, head to my opposite shoulder) in that manner.
I feel that prevents a passenger from wanting to lean to aid the turn. When somone is on the back I consider them just an extention of the bike. I compensate my riding to accomodate the additional weight. The fundimentals of riding remains the same.
And I also follow the MSF guide of:
Look left, push left, go left.
Look right, push right, go right.
As far as when I lean, I'd say it depends on the turn, its length and degree and the bikes speed. I will lean sooner if the turn is tighter. If not I'll push first and let the bike absorb the turn then lean wheen needed.
It all comes with practice. And feeling.
So to answer your question directly, push before you lean. Te time between the two will vary.
Good luck.
-Flash
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but habit" - Aristotle
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MSF says the passenger should lean with the rider. I only partially agree.
Here is what I tell my passengers. I have them "slightly" look over my left shoulder if I am turning/leaning right. And for a left turn/lean, it's just the opposite, I have them "slightly" look over my right shoulder. I say "slightly" as I am not actually requiring them to look over my shoulder, just focus their attention (center of body gravity parallel to bike, head to my opposite shoulder) in that manner.
I feel that prevents a passenger from wanting to lean to aid the turn. When somone is on the back I consider them just an extention of the bike. I compensate my riding to accomodate the additional weight. The fundimentals of riding remains the same.
And I also follow the MSF guide of:
Look left, push left, go left.
Look right, push right, go right.
As far as when I lean, I'd say it depends on the turn, its length and degree and the bikes speed. I will lean sooner if the turn is tighter. If not I'll push first and let the bike absorb the turn then lean wheen needed.
It all comes with practice. And feeling.
So to answer your question directly, push before you lean. Te time between the two will vary.
Good luck.
-Flash
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but habit" - Aristotle
I've had passengers a LOT of the time. Basically I tell 'em to sit still and hang on, countersteering takes care of the turning. Only problem I have is if they try to lean out of the corner because they think we're going to tip over. Then I can't turn the bugger unless I elbow 'em. (Note, I don't do this if my wife is the one on the back[
)])
Red 2002 ZX-6R 636
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It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop...
)])Red 2002 ZX-6R 636
It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop...
hey,
I was wondering if anyone had any good tips while riding with a passenger on the back. i have had some people say that they tell the passenger to lean with them when they lean and what not, and have had others say that they just want the passenger to sit still like a log. what do you all prefer and suggest?
also, one quick counter-steering clear up, do you lean first... push the bar first... or do both at the same time? I have read the other topics about counter-steering but didn't get any specific info on the sequence of events. Thanks in advance!
I was wondering if anyone had any good tips while riding with a passenger on the back. i have had some people say that they tell the passenger to lean with them when they lean and what not, and have had others say that they just want the passenger to sit still like a log. what do you all prefer and suggest?
also, one quick counter-steering clear up, do you lean first... push the bar first... or do both at the same time? I have read the other topics about counter-steering but didn't get any specific info on the sequence of events. Thanks in advance!
I don't think it makes much difference, you can easily compensate with counter steering for the passengers movements. Maybe if you're riding at the limit it matters but I don't think that's so smart with a passenger.
If its a girl of say 50kg then I hardly notice them leaning, I compensate automatically. Acceleration is soo slow though.
One time I had my ~100kg (shitload of pounds) friend on and that made the steering feel a little heavy. And going 200+kmh (125+mph) didn't really feel safe anymore.
Have them lean this way and that on purpose, so you can practice compensating.
Freedom is won with blood and lost with the stroke of a pen
--uknown
If its a girl of say 50kg then I hardly notice them leaning, I compensate automatically. Acceleration is soo slow though.
One time I had my ~100kg (shitload of pounds) friend on and that made the steering feel a little heavy. And going 200+kmh (125+mph) didn't really feel safe anymore.
Have them lean this way and that on purpose, so you can practice compensating.
Freedom is won with blood and lost with the stroke of a pen
--uknown
At any reasonable speed in corners the passenger has to lean to keep the bike balanced by keeping the weight in the center between the front and rear wheels (not left or right of center). If your passenger does not lean then you are fighting the natural forces causing the bike to turn. You always want all weight is positioned so that the view is the center of the windscreen.
You can try it yourself. Go into a turn and lean the opposite way of the turn (like you're a motocrosser). Doesn't feel good because you can't steer the bike with your weight going in the opposite direction of the turn. Same thing goes for the weight of your passenger going off of the center of the bike by not leaning into the corner. Countersteering helps but only to get the lean started. If your passenger then refuses to lean then countersteering won't help once you are in the turn.
If you don't lean with the bike, as well as your passenger, well .... just try it both ways you will feel the difference!
[/quote]
also, one quick counter-steering clear up, do you lean first... push the bar first... or do both at the same time? I have read the other topics about counter-steering but didn't get any specific info on the sequence of events. Thanks in advance!
[/quote]
Counter steering causes the bike to turn by making the bike lean in the direction of the turn. You push the bar first and the lean will happen automatically which starts the turning process. Just remember push left (bar) to go left and push right (bar) to go right. .....
There you go. The passenger must lean both into, through and strighten up and out of the turn. Other wise you can't turn the bike. Countersteering does not turn the bike. Countersteer starts the lean which turns the bike, then when you are into the turn you turn the bike without countersteer.
If you keep countersteering through the turn you will crash!! ... unless you're in a big parking lot and can just go in circles
Also, remember the closer the two bodies are to each other, the closer the centerline of mass is to your own natural centerline making the weight easier to manage and balance through the turn more controllable.
I thought I made a mistake once but, I was wrong.
I thought I made a mistake once but, I was wrong.
No, you won't crash dammit!!Originally posted by Flachbau
There you go. The passenger must lean both into, through and strighten up and out of the turn. Other wise you can't turn the bike. Countersteering does not turn the bike. Countersteer starts the lean which turns the bike, then when you are into the turn you turn the bike without countersteer.
If you keep countersteering through the turn you will crash!! ... unless you're in a big parking lot and can just go in circles
Counter-steering or let us call it pushing on the bars since, like you know (right?), it can be done BOTH ways, to increase or decrease lean angle, and this lets you maintain excactly the lean angle you want at ALL times, regardless of which way you or the passenger is leaning. And it's the amount of lean angle modified by the location of the center of mass that turns the bike. Sometimes I've tried not only leaning but hanging off the bike as far as I can on the WRONG side and it just means more lean angle, no problem at all if you're not going really, really fast.
So you might not get excactly the line you wanted every turn because it takes a moment to compensate but so what? If your tires are a quarter foot from where you wanted them to be through the first few turns before you learn how your passenger moves, then so what? If you're cutting it that close all the way through the turn then you're going too fast with an inexperienced passenger. I've gone through twisties plenty fast with a 65kg (think fat chick, not superfat, but big 'n' chubby) passenger and after the first few turns the only problem I had was I realized I was going too fast when she started hitting me on a straight after the front wheel came down[}
] The poor thing was so scared yet didn't say anything before she couldn't control herself anymore, and afterwards stated that she will never ride a bike again[V]. This spring she had lost maybe 10kg so I took her for another ride and went really smooth so now she's not scared of bikes anymore[^]Freedom is won with blood and lost with the stroke of a pen
--uknown
LOL I never said you'd crash, have had many and varied skill levels of passengers and never had an accident with one on the back. Countersteering WILL turn the bike, every time, the guy or girl on the back goes where you go. They don't have much choice.
Red 2002 ZX-6R 636
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It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop...
Red 2002 ZX-6R 636
It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop...
Blaze check out this gixxer thread
Oh no, I revealed I read the gix forum, will I become an outcast[:0]
It's a good forum too, not as good as this one but good nonetheless.
http://www.gixxer.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=1773&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Oh no, I revealed I read the gix forum, will I become an outcast[:0]
It's a good forum too, not as good as this one
but good nonetheless.http://www.gixxer.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=1773&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
I usually tell the passenger if she's never been on a bike to do absolutely nothing = sit straight when bike is straight, lean with the bike and the rider when cornering. I guess you could call that the log technique
I usually sit bolt upright when I ride with the passenger, no point of hanging off with "dead weight" on the back...
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7,62mm. One size fits all.
I usually sit bolt upright when I ride with the passenger, no point of hanging off with "dead weight" on the back...
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7,62mm. One size fits all.
Originally posted by RedFinn
No, you won't crash dammit!!
RedFinn if think about what my post said ... if you keep countersteering through the turn (turning the front wheel in the opposite direction of the turn) you WILL continue to turn and you WILL run out of turn and you WILL crash. At some point you have to quit countersteering and steer in the direction of the turn. Right?
If you don't think I'm right go try it and tell me how it felt to hit the embankment or pavement ...
Once you are in the turn and reach the max lean angle for the turn you are then steering in the direction of the turn. Again, at this point, you are NO LONGER countersteering in the turn!
To bring the bike up and out of the turn, to turn the front wheels straight, you turn the wheels in the opposite direction of the turn you are coming out of (i.e. coming out of a left turn you need to steer right to go straight). This is not countersteering. Why because the exit of any turn is no longer in the direction of the turn you came out of. It is the opposite. (i.e. coming out of a left turn you need to steer right to go straight because in effect you are going right). Steering right to go right is not countersteering.
I'd like to hear from anyone who countersteers out of a turn (at least on the track). Maybe I could learn something .... [?]
the faster you go the more lean required to turn. i dont know about you guys but i dont like to drive to fast with a passenger, especially if it requires them to lean.
if your taking them to the twisties, i suggest you leave them behind unless you want to be left behind if you go in group. but, its not my 6k dollar bike[^]
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Member since 8/30/02. Forget what the post count says!
if your taking them to the twisties, i suggest you leave them behind unless you want to be left behind if you go in group. but, its not my 6k dollar bike[^]
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I really hate having a passenger, in most cases.
1. Added worry about their safety.
2. Suspension is off with the added weight.
3. Their steering input.
4. They don't have proper gear (most of the time)
5. And my nuts in the gas tank
Straight line riding tips:
1. Remove the passenger hand holds (So they have to hold onto you).
2. If their boobs aren't against your back, accelerate harder.
3. Also, grab enough brake for the same reason as #2.
You never know how fast you can go, until you crash.
1. Added worry about their safety.
2. Suspension is off with the added weight.
3. Their steering input.
4. They don't have proper gear (most of the time)
5. And my nuts in the gas tank
Straight line riding tips:
1. Remove the passenger hand holds (So they have to hold onto you).
2. If their boobs aren't against your back, accelerate harder.
3. Also, grab enough brake for the same reason as #2.
You never know how fast you can go, until you crash.
That is the only downside wearing a back protector, you just cannot feel the boobs in your back [8D]Originally posted by meangreenie
2. If their boobs aren't against your back, accelerate harder.
3. Also, grab enough brake for the same reason as #2.
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7,62mm. One size fits all.
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I have them look over my shoulder in the direction of the turn. I have them ride with their hands either on my waist or in my jacket poackets and tell them to keep their body in line with mine.
I took one girl for a ride who would spot the turns, look in the right direction before the turn and would lean when I started too. She acted just like an extension of me, which made it easy to ride quick. I've never been so comfortable riding with a passenger on back.
No, I don't want a pickle,
Just want to ride on my motorsickle.
I took one girl for a ride who would spot the turns, look in the right direction before the turn and would lean when I started too. She acted just like an extension of me, which made it easy to ride quick. I've never been so comfortable riding with a passenger on back.
No, I don't want a pickle,
Just want to ride on my motorsickle.
My girlfriend used to ride, so she's a great passenger (and it helps that she only weighs about 115 pounds), but I found the same aids/problems even with other girls that aren't as good of passengers.
If they hold on tight to you (ie, their chest against your back, arms around your tummy), they are less likely to lean in the wrong direction or do a similar dangerous thing that upsets your balance. In this position, it helps if she will put her hands on the tank when you are slowing down so there is not as much pressure on your arms.
Here's a rule of thumb I used before I stopped giving rides to other girls: If she'll hold on tight and seems to trust you to steer, it's all good. If she won't hold on to you or leans the wrong way or otherwise goofs things up, make the ride short and don't take her on the bike again. It isn't worth the danger a bad passenger can cause.
If a girl will pretend she's part of the bike and not move at all, that works too, but I think it's harder for them to do that than to just hold on to you. Why would you want a girl on your bike that won't hold on to you anyway?[8D]
That's my two cents.
mvrk1
If they hold on tight to you (ie, their chest against your back, arms around your tummy), they are less likely to lean in the wrong direction or do a similar dangerous thing that upsets your balance. In this position, it helps if she will put her hands on the tank when you are slowing down so there is not as much pressure on your arms.
Here's a rule of thumb I used before I stopped giving rides to other girls: If she'll hold on tight and seems to trust you to steer, it's all good. If she won't hold on to you or leans the wrong way or otherwise goofs things up, make the ride short and don't take her on the bike again. It isn't worth the danger a bad passenger can cause.
If a girl will pretend she's part of the bike and not move at all, that works too, but I think it's harder for them to do that than to just hold on to you. Why would you want a girl on your bike that won't hold on to you anyway?[8D]
That's my two cents.
mvrk1
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