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Mad Hatter
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i do not have kids... cuz im not married yet.. but i see my freinds to thru this all the time... i even have girlfreinds who tell me they do this on purpose so they dont have to work... good job... i hope it catches on... it should be a descision made by two.
 

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mad dum son
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My experience is a bit different from the one in this article but it has some similarities with the subject. When having this type of discussion I've always ended up in a "chicken or egg" issue. I just think that the system (*maybe* rightfully so) is biased toward women more than looking at it from an equal parts perspective. I guess it's a "men have gotten away with so much shit for so many years" kind of deal that we are now getting punished for it.

I am paying child support right now for my daughter who is living in Puerto Rico with her mother. At the time when we were together, I was truthfully hoping that we would make a life together here in NYC. When she found out she was pregnant she moved back to Puerto Rico because all of her family is over there. I pleaded for her to stay here but it was useless. She had decided that she did not want to live here.

So why should I be paying child support for someone that I have contact with maybe a week or two out of the year? I feel that if she took my daughter away from me unwillingly that I shouldn't be held liable for her economically. I WANTED to have her in my life and the mother took that from me.
 

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Originally posted by cyberdos
My experience is a bit different from the one in this article but it has some similarities with the subject. When having this type of discussion I've always ended up in a "chicken or egg" issue. I just think that the system (*maybe* rightfully so) is biased toward women more than looking at it from an equal parts perspective. I guess it's a "men have gotten away with so much shit for so many years" kind of deal that we are now getting punished for it.

I am paying child support right now for my daughter who is living in Puerto Rico with her mother. At the time when we were together, I was truthfully hoping that we would make a life together here in NYC. When she found out she was pregnant she moved back to Puerto Rico because all of her family is over there. I pleaded for her to stay here but it was useless. She had decided that she did not want to live here.

So why should I be paying child support for someone that I have contact with maybe a week or two out of the year? I feel that if she took my daughter away from me unwillingly that I shouldn't be held liable for her economically. I WANTED to have her in my life and the mother took that from me.
I'm with you on that cyber. That argument would be a slippery slope though, as an abusive husband, or just bad husband, could argue he still wanted his wife and kid around, but they took off (to get away from him).

The problem with the lawsuit in the article, is every guy would start claiming he never wanted a kid. On top of potentially seriously damaging the kids self esteem and self worth, this is bad just because of the can of worms it opens.
 

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You shouldn't. Men should have a right to say no and if they are forced to pay, should receive 1/2 time with the child. There are hundreds of thousands of men in this country paying child support for a kid they're not allowed to see. It takes two to tango I've always been told.

The other issue is when the man wants the child, but the mother doesn't and wants an abortion. The man has no rights or legal remedies to stop her.
 

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Originally posted by cyberdos
My experience is a bit different from the one in this article but it has some similarities with the subject. When having this type of discussion I've always ended up in a "chicken or egg" issue. I just think that the system (*maybe* rightfully so) is biased toward women more than looking at it from an equal parts perspective. I guess it's a "men have gotten away with so much shit for so many years" kind of deal that we are now getting punished for it.

I am paying child support right now for my daughter who is living in Puerto Rico with her mother. At the time when we were together, I was truthfully hoping that we would make a life together here in NYC. When she found out she was pregnant she moved back to Puerto Rico because all of her family is over there. I pleaded for her to stay here but it was useless. She had decided that she did not want to live here.

So why should I be paying child support for someone that I have contact with maybe a week or two out of the year? I feel that if she took my daughter away from me unwillingly that I shouldn't be held liable for her economically. I WANTED to have her in my life and the mother took that from me.
i feel for ya man.the one major factor working against any resolution for you is the state you live in.the network of anal retentive shemales running the family services up there take it upon themselves to make their own state wide law.case and point.i had a baby with my girlfriend in 1995.she was on medicaid to cover the hospital bill for the birth.well im still paying the state back for that because family services pinned her hospital bill on my child and decided to call it child support.they came and arrested me and put me in jail over night when i refused to recognize it as child support and pay it.the next morning when i went in front of the judge his exact words were"mr.preston youve been arrested for failure to pay child support."and i said its not child support its for medical reimbursment for my ex girlfriends hospital bill.and he said"family services is calling it child support and until you prove its not, it is.sir."i said i see.take me back to jail then because the public defender you gave me is a women and works in the county building with the rest of them hitlerettes and i know in my heart i will never be represented unbiasedly.he said .your free to go.take care of your obligations.....fuck them.come and get me assholes.
 

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I agree with everyone else so far. I think that there are flaws in the system that need to be reconciled.

It would be easiest if the system paralleled prenuptual agreements for these types of things. Essentially saying that "we're in this relationship together while we're in it. However, I don't want a kid. If a stituation arises where you become pregnant and decide to keep the child, you decide to make this choice, you do so against my wishes, and will therefor not have my support on the decision." Something along those lines that pretty much says a woman is agreeing that if she has the kid, she knows the consequences, and agrees to fly solo on it.

Now the problem is getting every women to sign that contract before she f*cks a new guy. [:p] But as it's written now, women can deceitfully become pregnant, and essentially hold a man at ransom for 18 years. It's pretty easy to see that something needs to be done.
 

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well part of the problem wit that in a state like new york is this.new york had hundreds of millions of dollars of state pensions dumped into enron and its affilliates.they lost it.that coupled with the 9/11 loss,and the years and years of corruption in the state and local governments,mismanaging tax dollars ,embezzlment ,fraud etc.have the state on its knees looking for someone to recover their losses.so who do they point their finger at?poor people of course.people on medicaiad and welfare,new york has been on a big advertising campaign for about 4 years now explaining to the world how the states cost for medicaid has brought the state to its knees.they are a bucnh of fkn corrupt criminals stealing the citizens tax money,their freedoms,their pride,their land,their resources,and dont give a dam who they do what to.its time places like new york got a wake up call from the people they are defrauding ,its time for everyone to stand up and fight back.DAMMIT they have taken too much from us and they take more every day.it absolutley amazes me what they have gotten us used to in the last 10 years.

sorry cyberdos i hope you dont think ive gotten off the path here i was just trying to explain why things are the way they are up there and other places as well.im trying to enlighten people that may be ignorant as to the basic fundamental reasoning of the rights you and i dont have as men with our children.as longas the states have a reason for welfare or "family services" to exist we are fawked.
 

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just happened to my friend. wife got pregnant on purpose because they were weeks away from divorce, now theres a child in the middle of it. i totally agree with the article. i love the idea, but it will never fly, too many republicans in office.
 

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Originally posted by -gary
You shouldn't. Men should have a right to say no and if they are forced to pay, should receive 1/2 time with the child. There are hundreds of thousands of men in this country paying child support for a kid they're not allowed to see. It takes two to tango I've always been told.

The other issue is when the man wants the child, but the mother doesn't and wants an abortion. The man has no rights or legal remedies to stop her.
i completely agree!! Well said gary
 

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I think that too many people are having too many kids already, and if something like this passes, it will make the situation worse. While I agree that men aren't given enough rights to their children by the courts, if they weren't made to pay child support, you would see alot more women leaving their kids in dumpsters.
 

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Originally posted by TIM PRESTON
from what ive been seeing of people lately that might not be such a bad thing.
What, leaving kids in dumpsters? I hope your joking. Children don't ask to be brought into this world, and unfortunately, cannot control whether or not their parents are good people. The system needs to be modified to help children more, not the other way around.
 

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There are plenty of places to get rid of a kid if you don't want it in this country. There are waiting lists for newborns and every state, I believe, now has a no prosecute drop off policy. There is no reason to throw any baby out and this wouldn't change that in the least.
 

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Originally posted by -gary
There are plenty of places to get rid of a kid if you don't want it in this country. There are waiting lists for newborns and every state, I believe, now has a no prosecute drop off policy. There is no reason to throw any baby out and this wouldn't change that in the least.
Look at it in the point of view from the woman with the newborn:
She fucked up over 9 months ago and got pregnant.
Chances are, if she's not living in her parents house, she's hidden the fact from her family, and possibly even from some of her friends by isolating herself.

The people who did know she got pregnant have probably all said to her at one point in time or another "You fucked up", and helped screw up her self esteem even more.

Now, She knows she's not ready or capable to raise a child, and somehow society expects her to go into a hospital, police department, or Fire House, and tell the people there that she's a bad person, and can't keep this baby? What do you think's going to happen when the people look at her? Do you think they're going to say "Hey, that's cool. Hand over the little one, and you can run along now"?

No, they're going to subject her to the Spanish Inquisition, which is what she doesn't want to deal with, and why it's so much easier in her mind to drop a baby off at a dumpster around the corner than to go face a building full of cops or firefighters.

It's a fucked up world we live in, but until someone passes legislation that requires all females to be rendered infertile after they hit puberty, and they are only allowed reproductive rights after applying for a license (you need one to get married, why not require one to have and raise kids?), and showing that you can and will support a child, then this whole situation is not going to change anytime soon.

Anyway, the situation that Cyberdos posted is a slippery slope.
The guy is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
He figured that he found the perfect woman.
Free unprotected sex with no chance for baby.

The girl he was with figured she wasn't capable of having a kid, but when she found out she could, she knew she wanted it, because she can't be sure if she'll ever beable to have another.

So she obviously wanted the kid, and he obviously diddn't.
There was no possible way he was ever going to convince her to abort it. Chances are he probably should have gone and seen a lawyer to figure out some way to have made up a contract where he could have not been held liable for the child support after the baby was born.

The states enforce pre-nuptual contracts all the time, why not a pre-birth contract?

Anyway, before anyone calls me cold and heartless for what I've said, let me point out the fact that I feel more sorry for the kids than I do for it's parents. The kids have it rougher than anyone else in situations like these. That's why child support was created and enforced, to try and make it less hard on the kids. Unfortunately, there are lots of men who skip out on their child support, making a hard situation even harder.

I have one friend down south who was married to a guy for 10 years, and had 4 kids with her. He was a mentally abusive fucktard, and did everything he could to force her to be dependant on him, and eventually he skipped out on her. Right now, she has as close to nothing as you can get, except the kids. She struggles to make end meet. And he's skipped out on child support, and the states that she lives in, and that he ran to won't help her collect.

It's a fucked up world.
BC.
 

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ok so the statistics show that children especially young boys that grow up without a father tend to end up as criminals or in trouble or just non productive citizens all together.so your saying the solution to the problems with all this is more adoption.that might ease some of the burdon on the tax payers and victims.ill grant you that but if you ask me the family services that fight to keep the fathers rights down to nothing but alimony are the true root of the problem.now im not saying there isnt worthless fkrs out there that have children and up and leave and show no support what so ever.but when you deny the father of the baby the right to 50 % of the raising of the child you yourself are contributuing to a baby that is more than likely gonna end up a non productive citizen,and a tax burden on the rest of us.and the people that are doing this to us
and these babys and children are the shemales in family services that want to keep their job so they either intentionally or unintentionally give themsellves job security by maintaining a stream of young people that grow up and use the very sysytem these women work for.welfare,medicaid,family services what ever.its a problem that needs to be dealt with.
 

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Ok, maybe I'm just a little bit of a communist here, but check this out....when the youth of america come to that fertile age, they should be implanted with a permanent birth control. Then, when boy meets girl and they decide they want to have a kid, they should be required to take classes, pass a test, and essentially prove to someone that their genepool is worth continuing! Yeah, it's a pretty harsh theory, but we'd have alot less un-wanted babies and alot less incompetent parents having them. Shit, I gotta prove I'm stable before I can go to the SPCA and adopt a f*cking dog, why should just any two dipshits be allowed to reproduce??? [^]
 

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Originally posted by h2oballer
Ok, maybe I'm just a little bit of a communist here, but check this out....when the youth of america come to that fertile age, they should be implanted with a permanent birth control. Then, when boy meets girl and they decide they want to have a kid, they should be required to take classes, pass a test, and essentially prove to someone that their genepool is worth continuing! Yeah, it's a pretty harsh theory, but we'd have alot less un-wanted babies and alot less incompetent parents having them. Shit, I gotta prove I'm stable before I can go to the SPCA and adopt a f*cking dog, why should just any two dipshits be allowed to reproduce??? [^]

wheeeeeewww!! the whole concept of society in general is the problem.deep inside we are all of bunch of monkeys sitting in a tree flinging shit at each other.the concept of one group or entity that thinks they can control the beings god has put on this earth is a rediculous concept that is and will ultimately fail.
 

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Originally posted by -gary
There are plenty of places to get rid of a kid if you don't want it in this country. There are waiting lists for newborns and every state, I believe, now has a no prosecute drop off policy. There is no reason to throw any baby out and this wouldn't change that in the least.
And yet, babies still end up in dumpsters rather than in a foster home. If people are going to keep having babies out of wedlock, they need to pay for the child together. If the man is upset that he doesn't have enough rights to his child, he shouldn't have had the child in the first place. That's why people usually get married first.
 
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