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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does stop and go traffic below 15mph and long idling make the engine get really hot? I saw my engine temp get REALLY close to the red zone and I'm not sure if that's normal. Bear in mind there was long idling on a hot day. Once I broke free from traffic and back up past 30mph
the temp gauge went back to the normal display temperature.

This was the day I finally mustered up the ambition to ride the bike on a busy day which involved lots of commuting (it's usually a weekend/sunny day bike). I admit, I'd rather have a nice comfortable car as a daily driver, but riding the bike was fun. But it got hot in traffic which really worried me (I even turned the engine off at a stoplight) and I lost my license plate at some point during the long day which made my head burn up more than the bike was heating up.

And by the way: cruising the local strip is NOT that fun on a bike. It's just like stop and go traffic which makes the bike get hot. And most of the time you're idling in first geat between lights. Where's the fun in that? Looking good only seems to be appealing when you're watching someone else on a bike, not when you're riding yourself.

159 Posts
Try water wetter by redline YES you can use it for bikes and recommended for bikes.
helps to keep bike cool .for alot of hot riding install a fan switch so u can turn it on anytime u want like at lights remember to turn it off though[8]

Red Line WaterWetter® will provide the proper corrosion inhibition for all cooling system metals, including aluminum, cast iron, steel, copper, brass, and lead.

Water has twice the heat transfer capability when compared to 50% glycol antifreeze/coolant in water. Most passenger automobiles have a cooling system designed to reject sufficient heat under normal operating conditions using a 50/50 glycol solution in water. However, in racing applications, the use of water and WaterWetter® will enable the use of smaller radiator systems, which means less frontal drag, and it will also reduce cylinder head temperatures, even when compared to water alone, which means more spark advance may be used to improve engine torque.

Doubles the wetting ability of water
Improves heat transfer
Reduces cylinder head temperatures
May allow more spark advance for increased torque
Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis of all metals
Provides long term corrosion protection
Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
Prevents foaming
Reduces cavitation corrosion
Complexes with hard water to reduce scale
The conventional spark ignition gasoline engine is not a very efficient powerplant. A considerable amount of the available fuel energy must be rejected from the metal combustion chamber parts by the coolant and dispersed to the atmosphere through the radiator. This heat rejection is necessary in order to prevent thermal fatigue of the pistons, cylinder walls, and the cylinder head. Another problem is that the combustion chamber must be cooled enough to prevent preignition and detonation. The higher the combustion chamber temperatures, the higher the octane number required to prevent preignition and detonation. Since the octane of the available fuel is limited, increasing temperatures in the combustion chamber require retarding the spark timing which reduces the peak torque available. Higher inlet temperatures also reduce the density of the fuel/air mixture, reducing available torque further. For these reasons reducing the flow of heat to the coolant usually reduces the efficiency of the engine. Figure 1 shows a typical heat balance diagram for a spark ignition engine. This diagram demonstrates that the coolant in an automobile engine must absorb and reject through the radiator 2 to 3 times the amount of energy which is converted to brake power.

Water has amazingly superior heat transfer properties compared to virtually any other liquid cooling medium - far superior to glycol-based coolants. As shown in Table 1, water has almost 2.5 times greater thermal conductivity compared to glycol coolants. Mixtures of glycol and water have nearly proportional improvement due to the addition of water. Most heat is transferred in a cooling system by convection from hot metal to a cooler liquid as in the engine block or from a hot liquid to cooler metal surfaces, as in the radiator. The convection coefficient of liquids in a tube is a complicated relationship between the thermal conductivity, viscosity of the liquid, and the tube diameter which determines the amount of turbulent flow. Since 50/50 glycol solution has about 4 times the viscosity and only 70% of the thermal conductivity of water, the thermal convection coefficient for a 50/50 glycol solution is approximately 50% of the coefficient for water. Water in the cooling system is capable of transferring twice as much heat out of the same system as compared to a 50/50 glycol coolant and water solution. In order for a 50/50 glycol mixture to reject as much heat as water (amount of heat rejected is independent of the coolant), the temperature differentials at the heat transfer surface must be twice as great, which means higher cylinder head temperatures.

Table 1
Thermal Properties of Cooling System Materials Material Density
g/cm3 Thermal
Watt/m · °C Thermal
Watt/m · °C Heat
cal/g · °C Heat of
Water 1.000 0.60 1829 1.000 539
Glycol 1.114 0.25 ------ 0.573 226
50/50 1.059 0.41 897 0.836 374

Aluminum 2.70 155 0.225
Cast Iron 7.25 58 0.119
Copper 8.93 384 0.093
Brass 8.40 113 0.091
Ceramics 1 - 10
Air .0013 .026 0.240

Red Line WaterWetter® can reduce cooling system temperatures compared to glycol solutions and even plain water. Water has excellent heat transfer properties in its liquid state, but very high surface tension makes it difficult to release water vapor from the metal surface. Under heavy load conditions, much of the heat in the cylinder head is transferred by localized boiling at hot spots, even though the bulk of the cooling solution is below the boiling point. Red Line's unique WaterWetter® reduces the surface tension of water by a factor of two, which means that much smaller vapor bubbles will be formed. Vapor bubbles on the metal surface create an insulating layer which impedes heat transfer. Releasing these vapor bubbles from the metal surface can improve the heat transfer properties in this localized boiling region by as much as 15% as shown in Figure 2. This figure demonstrates the removal of heat from an aluminum bar at 304°F by quenching the bar in different coolants at 214°F under 15 psi pressure. Compare the time required to reduce the temperature of the aluminum to 250°F, or the boiling point of water at 15 psi. WaterWetter® required 3.2 seconds, water alone 3.7 sec, 50/50 glycol in water required 10.2 sec, and 100% glycol required 21 sec. Water alone required 15% longer, 50/50 glycol 220% longer, and 100% glycol required 550% longer.

Performance Properties of Coolants
Cooling System Fluid Stabilized Temperature
50% Glycol/ 50% Water 228°F
50/50 with WaterWetter 220°F
Water 220°F
Water with WaterWetter 202°F

Dynomometer tests performed by Malcolm Garrett Racing Engines showed significant improvements in coolant temperatures using WaterWetter. These tests were performed with a Chevrolet 350 V-8 with a cast iron block and aluminum cylinder heads. The thermostat temperature was 160°F. The engine operated at 7200 rpm for three hours and the stabilized cooling system temperature was recorded and tabulated below:

These numbers are similar to the temperatures recorded in track use and heavy-duty street use.

Under moderate load conditions, each percent glycol raises cylinder head temperatures by 1°F. 50% glycol raises head temperatures by 45°F. This increase in temperature will raise the octane required for trace knock levels by typically 3.5 octane numbers. A car equipped with a knock sensor will retard the timing to compensate for the increase in octane requirement by approximately 5°, which will reduce the maximum brake torque by about 2.1%. Racing vehicles not equipped with knock sensors can advance timing for increased torque.

Red Line WaterWetter® does not significantly increase the boiling point of water; however, increasing pressure will raise the boiling point. The boiling point of water treated with Red Line using a 15 psi cap is 250°F compared to 265°F at 15 psi for 50% glycol. Increasing the pressure by 50% to 23 psi will increase the boiling point of water to 265°F. Because of the doubling of the ability of the radiator to transfer heat, boilover using Red Line treated water is not a problem as long as the engine is circulating coolant through the head and the fan is circulating air. Sudden shutdown after very hard driving may cause boilover.

SAE 880266 Water +
Red Line 50% Glycol 70% Glycol
Increase in Cylinder
Head Temperature Baseline +45°F +65°F
Increase in Octane
(RON) Requirement Baseline +3.5 +5.0
Change in Spark Timing
for Trace Knock Baseline -5.2° -7.5°
Change in Torque Baseline -2.1% -3.1%

Red Line WaterWetter® does not significantly reduce the freezing point of water. If the vehicle will see freezing temperatures, an antifreeze must be used. Water expands approximately 9% upon freezing which can cause severe engine damage. Even in summertime, the use of air-conditioning can blow freezing air through the heater and cause freezing of the heater core unless approximately 20% antifreeze is used.

Modern automotive engines now use aluminum for heads, radiators, water pump housings, and nearly all hose fittings. These engines require significantly greater corrosion protection than their cast iron counterparts of the past. Aluminum is such an electroactive metal that it requires an impenetrable corrosion inhibitor film to prevent rapid corrosion. Acid neutralization capability is very important. Coolant which has been left in a cooling system for several years has probably become acidic from the oxidation of the glycol to acids. Also, keeping the glycol concentration in the cooling system below 50% will help stability.

Red Line also provides excellent protection from cavitation erosion in the water pump and cylinder head. Localized boiling in the cylinder head forms vapor bubbles which collapse when they come in contact with cooler liquids. This collapse creates tremendous shock waves which removes the inhibitor film from the aluminum surface and can cause catastrophic erosion of the aluminum if the inhibitor does not reform the film quickly. Another problem created by cavitation erosion is the deposition of the removed aluminum as a salt with poor heat transfer properties in the lower temperature radiator tubes. Red Line prevents this corrosion through effective film formation and smaller vapor bubble formation, which has a less violent collapse. Foam control is equally important since entrained air will cause cavitation erosion due to the collapse of foam bubbles. Red Line provides excellent control of foam with water alone and glycol solutions.

Most coolants additives on the market provide only protection for iron and perhaps moderate protection for aluminum. The milky soluble oil types can actually impede heat transfer by wetting the metal surface with oil and this oil can swell and soften rubber coolant hoses. Table 3 shows the many tests which the Red Line formula will satisfy and how it compares to a standard antifreeze.

Comparison of Corrosion Inhibition Properties
pH 8.6 7.5 - 11 9.8
Boiling Point @ 15 psig 250°F 265°F (50%)
Freezing Point 31°F -35°F(50%) -35°F
Foaming Height, ml 75 150 50
Color Pink green
Ash, % 0.5 5, max 1
Surface Tension @ 100°C,
Dynes/cm2 28.3 58.9 (water)
ASTM D4340 Heat Transfer
Corrosion Test, Aluminum
Weight loss, mg/cm2/wk 0.21 1 max 0.45
ASTM D1384 Corrosion,
Weight loss, mg/specimen
Copper 1 10 max 5
Solder 6 30 7
Brass 2 10 5
Steel 1 10 6
Cast Iron 0 10 3
Aluminum 16 30 30

Red Line WaterWetter® does not alter the frictional property of tire rubber and water on a pavement surface. The chart below shows the static and dynamic friction of pavement wetted with different coolant types. Higher friction indicates less slipperiness. The dynamic friction indicates the increase in slipping which occurs after the tire begins to break loose. Water and water with WaterWetter® reduce the friction relative to dry pavement about 50%, but it is much less than the reduction in friction caused by ethylene glycol and even more slippery is propylene glycol.

One 12 ounce bottle treats 12-16 quarts of water or a 50% ethylene or propylene glycol solution. In smaller cooling systems, use 4-5 caps per quart. Add directly through the cooling system fill cap into the radiator or into the overflow tank. Do not open a cooling system while hot. For best protection for aluminum, replenish or replace every 15,000 miles. The anti-scaling ingredients in Red Line WaterWetter allow its use with ordinary tap water. However, using with distilled or deionized water will accomplish some scale removal in the cylinder head area. For maximum temperature reductions use the most water and the least antifreeze possible to prevent freezing in your climate. Even in summertime the use of air-conditioning can blow freezing air through the heater and cause freezing of the heater core unless approximately 20% antifreeze is used. Red Line WaterWetter is available in 12 ounce containers.

5 Posts
Yeah when you sit in traffic your bike gets hot but all bikes are liquid/air cooled, i dont know what year bike your ridin but at a certain tempurature your thermostat will open and the cooooooooooooolant will cycle and that will also help in cooling the bike, so it gets hot but its OK.. NO worries.

4,264 Posts
the wetter water or purple ice didnt do anything special to my bike. maybe my car, but i didnt have any kind of tool hooked up to it to tell me.

the post above me looks like a ad for that stuff, not a testimonial

1,230 Posts
From what I have heard some racetracks don't allow you to run regular coolant. Some require you to run water or water +water wetter. Something about regular coolant being to hard to clean up. Anyone experience this regulation on their track?
Im glad ZBARON posted all that info, I have been inquisitive about that stuff for a while now. I never really trust additives but it looks like this is not really an addative but can replace the coolant? Is that correct? Anyone else use this stuff and anyone see a lower temp?

4,264 Posts
its a additive. i believe at the track you can run water and wetter water, maybe depends on the track rules.

7,199 Posts
The tracks here do not allow coolant due to it being slippery. So you have to drain and refill with distilled water.

Also ride temp has ben covered here several times, so a search will bring up a few intense threads on the subject.

Also, here's the deal. Your bike has a digital thermometer. Yes the bike will heat up at slow speeds. You don't have to really worry until the bike display switches from a numerical read-out to the word "Hi" and/or the temperature LED light starts comes on as solid or blinking. THAT'S when you worry.

Granted I like my bike cooler than hotter, but the bike being 180-220 degrees is no biggie. It's when it gets to 245 and above that there is an issue. I prefer to keep my bike temp under 200 and I love seeing a number in the 160-180 range when cruising.


2,422 Posts
Exactly Flash.
As long as your fan kicks on, there should be no problem.
Mine usually kicks on at about 215-220, and have never had any problems. If the temp starts flashing and your fan isn't on, shut it off and take it back to the shop. Hopefully it's still under warranty.

159 Posts
from using the water wetter in my cars and bikes i can tell ya i will reduce the temp about 10 degrees under all conditions its great stuff i really recomend trying it in your cars and bike or anything with a cooling system.ive used it for years and never ever had a car or bike over heat, and i live in bay area vally where it gets to 110 hot dry air.
but never have had any problems.my 636 did get to 240 alot and added water wetter and it never goes over 225 now sweet !!![8D]
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