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An Area P will definetly make your ride more enjoyable, any exhaust will.. And to get the max out of it you really should take it in to a dyno shop to get it tuned and jetted, to gain the max performance (Area P says it will work without a jet but it will benefit and most exhausts highly recommend it).

And to the MPG, the area P will reduce weight but I have heard it does cause a reduction in MPG, but I assume you could counter this to some extent by going with a 15/43 gearing...
 

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To those saying you will highside if you loose the rear brake... I agree its better to lock the rear...

If you are calm enough to just clamp down on the rear brake and then slow using the front then you will come out of it just fine (unless you are going into a corner)...

One guy on here the other day talked about how when the locked the front within 1/4 of a second he was down...

You can ride with the rear locked, ever done it on a bicycle? Its not a fun feeling at speed but if you keep it locked and keep it straight you should be just fine...
Yes, you can lock the rear and still use the front and still come to a stop OK but many people, especially new riders, will panic and release the rear to reapply if it gets locked by reflex.
 

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Powerhungry
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To those saying you will highside if you loose the rear brake... I agree its better to lock the rear...

If you are calm enough to just clamp down on the rear brake and then slow using the front then you will come out of it just fine (unless you are going into a corner)...

One guy on here the other day talked about how when the locked the front within 1/4 of a second he was down...

You can ride with the rear locked, ever done it on a bicycle? Its not a fun feeling at speed but if you keep it locked and keep it straight you should be just fine...
i hope you dont REALLY believe that..about the rear brake.

if u lock the rear, while on the front...guess what happens. the rear will try to PASS the front, since its traveling FASTER. bad idea.

u CANT compare it to a bicycle. whats that weigh, 30-40 lbs...the friction from the locked tire will slow you some.
not happening on the BIKE.

locking a rear more often than not will result in a wreck.

as far as the front causing you to drop the bike, YES while going very slow and turning, it damn sure will.

but at any kind of speed, you want to use the front brake to STOP, and the rear for control. but do NOT rely on the rear for stopping power. especially, in any kind of emergency, or panic stop.
 

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This must be some sort of karma ;)...

Check out my "incident" post...

Anyways...

I asked the question there but how do you know what amount of rear pressure is to much?

And I wasnt saying I'd rather use the rear then the front brake, just that I'd rather lock it up but I guess its really not that safe (atleast at higher speeds, see my thread for my low speed lock up).

Is it okay to give it a few pounds of down force, while panic stopping, if the majority of the force is on the front?

Lastly, have you guys found that habits like this (not slamming the rear) that are practiced many times in say a parking lot do help on the street in a panic situation or does your fear/shock take over and make you slam that rear, regardless?

Kind-of makes me rethink the recent post about rear brake removal ;), or wish my pegs were more like a harley (its easier to rest your feet on the peg/pad without having a toe right over the rear brake just waiting to be slammed in a panic situation).
 

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This must be some sort of karma ;)...

Check out my "incident" post...

Anyways...

I asked the question there but how do you know what amount of rear pressure is to much?

And I wasnt saying I'd rather use the rear then the front brake, just that I'd rather lock it up but I guess its really not that safe (atleast at higher speeds, see my thread for my low speed lock up).

Is it okay to give it a few pounds of down force, while panic stopping, if the majority of the force is on the front?

Lastly, have you guys found that habits like this (not slamming the rear) that are practiced many times in say a parking lot do help on the street in a panic situation or does your fear/shock take over and make you slam that rear, regardless?
My MSF ridercoach advised us to use a parking lot and try braking from different speeds to figure out what is and isn't OK for YOU'RE specific bike once you get it. He recommended locking the rear on purpose and sliding it to a stop to see how it feels and to know what you can and can't do when the need for quick braking comes up. I know some are going to say "your MSF told you to purposely lock the rear!?" but to me it's better to figure out what your bike can and can't do in a closed controlled environment instead of out on the street.

Not sure how this differs from the adviced from others or saying this is the best but that's the information that was given to me. He didn't say to be doing speeds that fast though. Around 25 or less.
 

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Did he recommend just feeling the rear or doing a full panic stop (hard on the front)?

It must be real hard on a full size bike to lock just the rear but even if you could I doubt you'd learn anything while doing it... What I would want to experiment with is the rear brakes limits while moderatly heavy on the front brake...
 

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Powerhungry
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Did he recommend just feeling the rear or doing a full panic stop (hard on the front)?

It must be real hard on a full size bike to lock just the rear but even if you could I doubt you'd learn anything while doing it... What I would want to experiment with is the rear brakes limits while moderatly heavy on the front brake...
its VERY easy to lock the rear. especially while on the front brake.
the weight transfers to the front, making the rear very light...
 

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Did he recommend just feeling the rear or doing a full panic stop (hard on the front)?

It must be real hard on a full size bike to lock just the rear but even if you could I doubt you'd learn anything while doing it... What I would want to experiment with is the rear brakes limits while moderatly heavy on the front brake...
Under braking, the weight will shift towards the front so locking up the rear is not hard to do. That's not just bike specific. The weight shifts to the front, so you can have a stronger brake up there to brake harder without lock up and a smaller weaker brake in the rear so the rear doesn't lock up just by breathing on it.

He didn't recommend to just go out there and grab a handful of brake the first time. Try it a few times and add more pressure to stop quicker each try until you lock up. Then you know how much your specific bike can take. This might result in some people dropping their bike but better in a parking lot than on a street with a soccer mom behind you on her cell phone...
 

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I weigh 115 LBS. If I loose anymore weight it might throw me off :p

I heard of people taking off the rear brake because the front is enough.
Bad idea; best braking is a combination of both front and rear.. yes, the front is responsible for 70-80% of your braking, but the rear WILL help slow you down faster in conjunction with the front.

Adam-

You are on the right track. weight reduction is the fastest, easiest way to increase yur bike's performance, both it's acceleration ad braking, and also its suspension's ability to do it's job.

First and most obvious advice: ignore the dummies on this board who'll question why you want to do this or that. Like the previous post^. they contribute nothing to the discussion except to make themselves look ignorant.

As for weight reduction, yes, you are correct; the less power a bike has the more important weight reduction becomes and the more noticable the gains. Your 250 is perfect for a weight reduction program.

first, replace the stock header and pipe with an AP full system. Saves alot of weight and really increases the bikes hi-end performance. This is a must.

Second, reduce your rotating mass. Standard theory is that 1 lb of rotating mass = 7 lbs regular weight. best place to start is an aluminum rear sprocket (while you are at it change your gearing to 15/43, so you'll need a 15t front too). Next, if you are ambititous, take your rear rotor to a machine shop and have then drill it out as much as possible. there's easily 3/4 lb of weight to be lost there. With the alum sprocket and drilled rotor you'll notice better acceleration and braking and better turn in and rear suspension compliance.

Third, believe it or not, your tire choice. tire weight is the least appreciated aspect of weight reduction, yet it can be the most critical. It's rotating mass, and it's mass in the most critical area - rim weight - where it's effect is most pronounced. For example, a 120/70/17 bt-014 front tire weighs 3.8 kgs, while the Dunlop 208 front weighs 4.8 kgs. That means that the bt014 is 2.2 lbs lighter than the same size dunlop. Thats 2.2 lbs, at the farthest pint frm the axle, and thus the most pronounced, that the engine has to accelerate from a dead stop, the brakes must stop, and the suspension must keep firmly planted on the pavement. People spend $3500 on carbon fiber wheels to get similar weight savings in rim weight. You can do it for nothing by choosing the right tires.

My 250 came with the Dunlop GT501s. good, sticky tires, but heavy. As soon as i burn them off i'm going to either te bridgestone bt45s or the bt90s. Much lighter tires.

In addition to the above, you can replace the hardware (bolts & nuts) with titanium racing units - expensive, but it will drop at least a few pounds. Also; in addition to tires you can go with lighter wheels; also expensive, but a big improvement. Finally - instead of a 100% aluminum sprocket (which will wear quickly), I'd go with a twin-ring unit - the outer edge & teeth are titanium and the rest is aluminum. Very light, but MUCH more wear-resistant than aluminum alone.

You would be a tard to take off the rear brake. I use my rear brake more then the front. I would rather lock the rear then the front.
This is good advice... on a dirt bike, when off road. On a street bike, on pavement, you're begging for a high-side. I ride both on & off road, and I know what I'm talking about here.

Yes, you can lock the rear and still use the front and still come to a stop OK but many people, especially new riders, will panic and release the rear to reapply if it gets locked by reflex.
Very true. The answer is to practice in a safe area under controlled conditions to learn your bike/tires' limits before reaching lockup. Do it enough so it's second nature. In an emergency stop, your muscle memory will kick in.
 

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Bad idea; best braking is a combination of both front and rear.. yes, the front is responsible for 70-80% of your braking, but the rear WILL help slow you down faster in conjunction with the front.
Your front is responsible for 98% of your braking. Learn to use it and it alone. Better yet, learn to brake with your front in conjunction with engaging your clutch. Engaging your clutch while braking allows your brakes to stop you without the added rotating inertia of the entire engaged drivetrain. You'll stop faster than perfect control of both brakes without engaging the clutch.

The problem is precisely the problem of "muscle memory." If you teach yourself to brake using your rear, when you have a panic stop you'll invariably stab at the rear and lock it up and you'll be sliding down the road. if you learn to brake with your front only, always engaging the clutch while you exert modulated pressure on the front brake lever, you have more than enough braking to stop you quickly without the hazard of your rear end sliding out from under you.
 

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i'm going with a 15/41 sprocket combo.
i have an area p exhuast, pod filters, no kawasaki green emission system, all carb mods done.
a think the michelin pilots are the lightest tires for the 250. i wonder if a 120 on the rear tire would help.
i thnik the plastics are heavy. too bad there wasn't a naked or half naked option for the 250.
titanium hardware would be good.
 

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Your front is responsible for 98% of your braking. Learn to use it and it alone. Better yet, learn to brake with your front in conjunction with engaging your clutch. Engaging your clutch while braking allows your brakes to stop you without the added rotating inertia of the entire engaged drivetrain. You'll stop faster than perfect control of both brakes without engaging the clutch.

The problem is precisely the problem of "muscle memory." If you teach yourself to brake using your rear, when you have a panic stop you'll invariably stab at the rear and lock it up and you'll be sliding down the road. if you learn to brake with your front only, always engaging the clutch while you exert modulated pressure on the front brake lever, you have more than enough braking to stop you quickly without the hazard of your rear end sliding out from under you.
The muscle memory referred to is talking about using both brakes together in a quick stop situation. Not leisurely using the rear brake putzing around town and never having used it in a quick stop.

I don't know what you have against someone using both brakes by practicing it 'til they can make quick stops by muscle memory so rear lock ups aren't an issue anymore than locking the front. We know you're not a fan of the rear brake in any circumstance and that's cool... I'm not out to make you change your opinion you've gathered based on years of your personal experience.
 

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Enjoy your highside.
lock the front though and it's easy to panic into a lowside, I've locked the rear once so far on the street but I've got some dirt experience and was able to manage the bike with some body english, that was still when I was getting a feel for the bike, now I know the limits of the rear, just gotta explore the limits of the front now:D
 

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I'm new to the bike world and am realizing that on a bike every pound counts (especially on a 250). I'm wondering what are some ways that I can reduce the weight of an 08 250. I plan on getting an area P exhaust for the weight savings and the sound. I saw in a different post about taking off the rear brake but I wont be doing that.
did you ever find a good solution to this I want to transform a 2020VulcanS into a top speed racer for the salt flats maybe even one day beating Burt Monroe’s record. Theres a lot of room for improvement on this bikeIt must stay under 1000 mL
 
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