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'05 10r, Surely it's not just my bike but the brake lever has to be pulled almost half way to the throttle before I feel the pressure of the brakes being applied. I know the 10's caught some flak about the brakes fading on the track and hard riding but it's like the lever/master cylinder is set up wrong. Maybe the ratio of the lever is wrong or the piston in the cylinder is too small or something.So is there anything that can be done,like maybe putting an '06's on the '05 or what?
 

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I read that the 2004-5 without the radial master cylinder faded badly. I have an '06 and the brakes fade terribly even with the new master cylinder. I have been trying to get feedback from members who have corrected this and haven't heard a word yet. I think there are two problems. First, the rotors are crap. TOO SMALL and conseqently too thick. They retain too much heat and because they are only 298mm you have too brake harder/longer generating more heat causing the fade. The other you already mentioned,the piston in the Nissan radial mc is too small. I don't want to spend $600 on rotors if I can cure the problem with a Brembo 20 or 21mm mc and that is my question also.
I put a Pazzo shorty lever on the Nissan which gives more leverage and it helps but doesn't cure it. The suggestion of putting a washer in there scares me. It may cause the pads to rub. Also, I changed to EBC HH pads and removed the dust shields which helped a bit also.
Good luck and keep us posted!
 

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Do the less expensive mods first, i.e. quality fluid, ss-lines and pads and get a good bleed on the entire system ride it for a couple days and bleed yet again and see if your satisfied, however if not then your next move would be a radial MC of some sort/brand.

My 04 has Motul fluid, ss-lines, Vesrah RJL pads and an 05 zx6r(636) radial MC and the braking system is transformed albeit at the cost of the aforementioned products.

BD
 

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I agree with Big Daddy. I also did all that stuff (of course I already have the Nissan radial mc). For me, it just doesn't cut it. Again, Kawi missed the boat with the rotors imo. The feel of the lever is not for me but many don't mind it. If you have ever used a Brembo set-up with the Brembo radial mc you will know what I mean. Best of luck.
 

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I just installed Goodridge SS lines and used Motul RBF 600 fluid and it eliminated the fade. The lever is hard and stays hard with heat. The 06' with the radial M/C requires a really good bleed so take your time. Best $150 i've spent aside from the TRE but that's another topic:D
 

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If you want a quality radial master cylinder let me know..
Just ordered my Brembo 19x18 Radila MC with complete street hardware..$230 shipped
Prety sure it also requires new brake lines as i went ahead and ordered the glafer superbike lines that go with it...

cant wait to see how much better (feel & stopping power) it is then my, stainless line equipped nissin radial on my 6R..

PM if you want the info..also i am doing a GB on stainless lins in the GB section
 

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I spoke to many people and I heard each time different new stories. Since I'm working in the Chassis area of GM I contacted my brake colleagues and they explained the following which is reasonable to me:
Small rotor diameter introduces much more heat than larger diamenters. The compressibility of friction materials is dependant from temperature. Therefore the bad feeling rises. This make sense because the performance is still there but the lever displacement is really scaring. The effect is now even amplified by the ratio from Master Cylinder to wheel cylinder which is also not typical. So following measures will improve:
1.) Take out shims from pad backplates and also the dust plates from caliper to let the brake better cool
2.) Use steel brake lines. This does not heal the issue but is in general always of sence.
3.) Use 5.1 brake fluid and don't forget that this fluid loves water. So frequent change is higly recommended
4.) Now it's getting expensive but effective: By larger rotors and shim out calipers to be able to use the larger rotors (Wave disk from Braking or Flame disks)
5.) Use differnt master cylinder (e.g. Brembo) with piston diameter 19.
6.) Don't forget to use your rear brakes to :)) ! ! !

Regards

Rainer
3.)
 

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Originally posted by zx10edya
'05 10r, Surely it's not just my bike but the brake lever has to be pulled almost half way to the throttle before I feel the pressure of the brakes being applied. I know the 10's caught some flak about the brakes fading on the track and hard riding but it's like the lever/master cylinder is set up wrong. Maybe the ratio of the lever is wrong or the piston in the cylinder is too small or something.So is there anything that can be done,like maybe putting an '06's on the '05 or what?
If you dial the lever all the way out and you still have this problem, you need to bleed your brakes.
We raced an '05 all of last year, including a 6 hour and a 4 hour endurance race-all with the stock master cylinder, calipers and rotors. I've got this year's Attack ZX10 sitting on my showroom floor and guess what? It has the stock master, calipers and rotors. I guarantee the stock brake set up has more than enough capability to handle the loads generated by anyone who's posted on this thread.
Does that mean you can forget about doing the maintenance? Abosolutely not.
You can spend $5,000 on a set of Brembo rotors, calipers and master, and if you don't do the same maintenance, you'll end up with the same problem(s)
 

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Originally posted by Advanced Kawasaki<br>

If you dial the lever all the way out and you still have this problem, you need to bleed your brakes.
We raced an '05 all of last year, including a 6 hour and a 4 hour endurance race-all with the stock master cylinder, calipers and rotors. I've got this year's Attack ZX10 sitting on my showroom floor and guess what? It has the stock master, calipers and rotors. I guarantee the stock brake set up has more than enough capability to handle the loads generated by anyone who's posted on this thread.
Does that mean you can forget about doing the maintenance? Abosolutely not.
You can spend $5,000 on a set of Brembo rotors, calipers and master, and if you don't do the same maintenance, you'll end up with the same problem(s)
When you say this years Attack bike i'm guessing its an 06 with the radial MC correct??

however that doesn't mean there's not issues with those parts as delivered to dealerships because there have been far and away too many cases where lever fade has occured be it the system needing a good bleed, the internal tolerances of the OEM MC are suspect, subpar fluid, and i suspect the OEM parts used on the Attack bike were rebuilt with superior internal parts which would make them far more reliable than what everyday folks are using.

BD
 

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Originally posted by Big Daddy
Yea my 929rr was the same way but thats where the comparo ends in a BIG way as the zx10 reigns.

BD
Until you hit the front brakes . Don't care how many parts you pile on your pumpkin there fella . Still can't touch a stock 954 with HRC pads . Even stock pads no comparison .

The 10R wins in HP sure . The Honda is down several cc's and mucho compression . Still no slouch in the canyons as you know . :D
 

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Originally posted by tberd



Until you hit the front brakes . Don't care how many parts you pile on your pumpkin there fella . Still can't touch a stock 954 with HRC pads . Even stock pads no comparison .

The 10R wins in HP sure . The Honda is down several cc's and mucho compression . Still no slouch in the canyons as you know . :D
uh no at any point :Dand the piled on brake parts on my 10 are comparable to my 929(which is the same as a 954) and the 10r wins in HP/torque, comfort, chassis stability and basically just a superior machine but thanks anyway. ;)

BD
 

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I drove the CBR954 in 2003 in Endurance World Championship and it was nice and we did not have performance issues with the brake except too high wear. We were able to finish the 24h of Germany on 2nd place on the podium of Stocksport class, but ...

... I'm now 4sec. faster with the ZX10R with less modification on the bike that we drove in World Championship.

Don't lie yourself into your pocket: The time is gone for the CBR ! ! !

P.S.: To be very honest, the time even was never there since the other 1000cc bike were always superior.
 

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Originally posted by Big Daddy



When you say this years Attack bike i'm guessing its an 06 with the radial MC correct??

however that doesn't mean there's not issues with those parts as delivered to dealerships because there have been far and away too many cases where lever fade has occured be it the system needing a good bleed, the internal tolerances of the OEM MC are suspect, subpar fluid, and i suspect the OEM parts used on the Attack bike were rebuilt with superior internal parts which would make them far more reliable than what everyday folks are using.

BD
You're saying that bikes have been delivered to dealers needing to be bled? I would think I would have seen it, or at least heard of it.
Let me ask you, how often should you bleed your brakes/change the fluid?
BTW, the Attack bikes have stock masters (including the piston and seals).
 

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Originally posted by Advanced Kawasaki


You're saying that bikes have been delivered to dealers needing to be bled? I would think I would have seen it, or at least heard of it.
Let me ask you, how often should you bleed your brakes/change the fluid?
BTW, the Attack bikes have stock masters (including the piston and seals).
Absolutely positively without question they require bleeding. The Attack bikes may have stock masters including pistons and seals however Attack most likely has access to dozens of each therefore they are able to take an assem line MC and basically rebuild them to perform noticably better than what comes on a show room unit. This is in fact how factory supersport machine motors are built as well as many other aspects of a teams SS bikes........many many of the same parts to choose from to assem whats termed a SS bike but far superior to what a regular joe public would setup for racing SS.

BD
 

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Originally posted by Big Daddy



Absolutely positively without question they require bleeding. The Attack bikes may have stock masters including pistons and seals however Attack most likely has access to dozens of each therefore they are able to take an assem line MC and basically rebuild them to perform noticably better than what comes on a show room unit. This is in fact how factory supersport machine motors are built as well as many other aspects of a teams SS bikes........many many of the same parts to choose from to assem whats termed a SS bike but far superior to what a regular joe public would setup for racing SS.

BD
Any proof to back up your claims ? :)
 

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Originally posted by Big Daddy



Absolutely positively without question they require bleeding. The Attack bikes may have stock masters including pistons and seals however Attack most likely has access to dozens of each therefore they are able to take an assem line MC and basically rebuild them to perform noticably better than what comes on a show room unit. This is in fact how factory supersport machine motors are built as well as many other aspects of a teams SS bikes........many many of the same parts to choose from to assem whats termed a SS bike but far superior to what a regular joe public would setup for racing SS.

BD
Then I guess you'd be surprised how much (little) hp the factory bikes actually put out nowadays.
 

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Originally posted by Big Daddy



Absolutely positively without question they require bleeding. The Attack bikes may have stock masters including pistons and seals however Attack most likely has access to dozens of each therefore they are able to take an assem line MC and basically rebuild them to perform noticably better than what comes on a show room unit. This is in fact how factory supersport machine motors are built as well as many other aspects of a teams SS bikes........many many of the same parts to choose from to assem whats termed a SS bike but far superior to what a regular joe public would setup for racing SS.

BD
BD ,

can you post your pictures of you and Attack at your "assembly line party" you speak of ? You speak as if you have first hand knowledge of this process . What date did all this happen on ? Fantastic story for sure .
 
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