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Discussion Starter #1
I'm thinking about getting this wideband kit to get a more accurate tune when I rejet the bike. Anyone got any experience or input on this? I was kinda wondering about the accuracy since it would give an overall AFR instead of each individual cylinder. Would it be safe to assume that all cylinders would have the same AFR or not? Kinda new to having more than one carb to work with haha. Any help would be awesome.
 

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they'll differ a bit.

should be jetted differently anyway between the inner and outer cylinders.

CR can differ between pistons, so it's safe to say A/F will as well.

wideband tuning is always a good way to get shit set up right tho.
 

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hope you can weld!! lol

no problem if you've got a good tig rig or a nice mig welder with an accurate and controllable low range.

some welders hate their lower settings and carry on when you try to weld.

i like being able to tune each cylinder.. it's just easier to achieve really good results that way.

it's too bad you can't tune all simultaneously tho.. but you CAN do one at a time if you really needed to.

you should get a really good baseline tune off a "common" sniff of all the cylinders at the collector merge point, then if you really want, you could tune each cylinder if you're not happy with the results.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yea, I've got a guy that will do it for me for nothing and he's an excellent welder. I guess I could put a bung on each runner and one on the collector also. I'm just kinda afraid of having that many areas that could possibly cause a leak. I'm gonna research on this a bit more before I go placing bungs all over my bike lol.
 

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Yea, I've got a guy that will do it for me for nothing and he's an excellent welder. I guess I could put a bung on each runner and one on the collector also. I'm just kinda afraid of having that many areas that could possibly cause a leak. I'm gonna research on this a bit more before I go placing bungs all over my bike lol.

Does that DATA Log..?

So you can review all the tuning, and see the A/F in each area ..?


.
 

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to save time and alot of hastle......tune the bike with one bung in the main exhaust pipe...use individule pipes to tune after so you'll be close to start......

By tuning and checking each cylinder afterwards, this may show a bad valse seal,ring seal or other condition that makes the reading different...........all in all they should be the same!.

The main jet settin gis the easiest and the first that should be done.....then needle position and pilot screw setting will follow.

Unless you have MAJOR mods(serious engine internals changed), the pilot jet should stay the same......and possibly a different needle , due to shaft thicknesses.....(off idle performance)

The best part is getting a bike that is runnig in the toilet(12.5 or richer), all cleaned up and even close(12.8-13.5) the thing will feel like a new rocketship!!

good luck!

J
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Does that DATA Log..?

So you can review all the tuning, and see the A/F in each area ..?


.
Haha nope, I would love to get the wideband commander so I could data log runs, but I just can't spend $400+ on it right now. If you could drop it to about 250 I would sure take it off your hands. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
to save time and alot of hastle......tune the bike with one bung in the main exhaust pipe...use individule pipes to tune after so you'll be close to start......

By tuning and checking each cylinder afterwards, this may show a bad valse seal,ring seal or other condition that makes the reading different...........all in all they should be the same!.

The main jet settin gis the easiest and the first that should be done.....then needle position and pilot screw setting will follow.

Unless you have MAJOR mods(serious engine internals changed), the pilot jet should stay the same......and possibly a different needle , due to shaft thicknesses.....(off idle performance)

The best part is getting a bike that is runnig in the toilet(12.5 or richer), all cleaned up and even close(12.8-13.5) the thing will feel like a new rocketship!!

good luck!

J

Yea, I think I will start with one in the collector and then check the plugs on each cylinder after that since it's about time for some new ones anyway. So there's a pilot jet which is idle/very low rpm, then a needle for the midrange, then the main jet for the top end right? Any other pointers for a carb virgin?
 

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that's the basics........get them sorted and if you have issues, let me know and we'll see whats what!!..........is there a jet kit already in it??if so...Do you have the OEM parts?

Typically speaking the aftermarket needles are too thin, but each and every case is different.

J
 

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Discussion Starter #11
that's the basics........get them sorted and if you have issues, let me know and we'll see whats what!!..........is there a jet kit already in it??if so...Do you have the OEM parts?

Typically speaking the aftermarket needles are too thin, but each and every case is different.

J

Yea, there's a jet kit already in it according to the previous owner, but I can't remember what kind. I don't have any jets or needles for it at all so I might as well be starting new haha. So how many different sizes does a jet kit come with? Enough so that I am guaranteed to find one that will work? Or can I pull em out of the bike and buy individual jets according to what I need? Sorry for all the questions but I'm only asking what I couldn't find when I searched.
 

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they come in an infinite assortment of sizes.

but like badass said, you'll wanna baseline all the cylinders with stock shit (or whatever's installed now) and go from there.. that way, you'll not only tune the bike as-is, but you'll learn as you go, so hen the time comes to bump up in jetting or do a little internal work rendering the need for more fuel, you'll already know what to do.

as far as sizing, you're not gonna wanna plug and play different sizes.. you'll wanna try going up or 2 sizes from stock on all th carbs. now, if your bike follows what my 6-E and 7-R do, the inner and outer jets will be different. this is to maintain the correct A/F between all the cylinders.. don't let this confuse you.. my 7 runs (stock) 170's for 1 and 4 and 180's for 2 and 3.. the reason being the inner cylinders run hotter.. more fuel helps with this.. lean is mean.. always remember that.. a lean condition will wipe out a motor faster that a rich one any day.. loads more heat.

hope that sheds a tiny bit of light on that tho.. badass, tough guy, and JD gun are the resident tuners here and probably know a few trick i don't. i'm just a lowly engine builder. :D

(and halfass tuner!!)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
they come in an infinite assortment of sizes.

but like badass said, you'll wanna baseline all the cylinders with stock shit (or whatever's installed now) and go from there.. that way, you'll not only tune the bike as-is, but you'll learn as you go, so hen the time comes to bump up in jetting or do a little internal work rendering the need for more fuel, you'll already know what to do.

as far as sizing, you're not gonna wanna plug and play different sizes.. you'll wanna try going up or 2 sizes from stock on all th carbs. now, if your bike follows what my 6-E and 7-R do, the inner and outer jets will be different. this is to maintain the correct A/F between all the cylinders.. don't let this confuse you.. my 7 runs (stock) 170's for 1 and 4 and 180's for 2 and 3.. the reason being the inner cylinders run hotter.. more fuel helps with this.. lean is mean.. always remember that.. a lean condition will wipe out a motor faster that a rich one any day.. loads more heat.

hope that sheds a tiny bit of light on that tho.. badass, tough guy, and JD gun are the resident tuners here and probably know a few trick i don't. i'm just a lowly engine builder. :D

(and halfass tuner!!)

Yea, I have a good bit of knowledge of engines, just never messed with carbs much, especially not four at a time haha. I've been wondering why the inner cylinders were different, but that makes sense now. So by baseline you mean just make a run or two and take note of the afr before I start tuning right? I was planning on doing that, but I know I'll need to go down a couple sizes on the low end cuz it's running rich as hell right now. I have some experience in tuning 4 cylinder cars, but only FI cars, so I'm really just trying to figure out how I should go about buying jets. Should I go ahead and buy a jet kit or should I get a baseline then order just the jets I need individually so I don't end up with a whole bunch of jets I don't need? Or can you even order jets for our bikes individually? Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for your help. I really wanna learn how to tune this thing right.
 

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start with the baseline...........if you are running say 12.0 and need to go down on the main, my experience would tell me that you need to go from a (say) 145 down to 135....to get close to 13.0............it seems like 10 is relative to 1.0A/F difference........or at lease gets you moving.......1 or 2 jet sizes is for fine tuning from (say) 13.0 to 12.8...

that's where id' be starting.........

good luck

J
 

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Discussion Starter #15
start with the baseline...........if you are running say 12.0 and need to go down on the main, my experience would tell me that you need to go from a (say) 145 down to 135....to get close to 13.0............it seems like 10 is relative to 1.0A/F difference........or at lease gets you moving.......1 or 2 jet sizes is for fine tuning from (say) 13.0 to 12.8...

that's where id' be starting.........

good luck

J
That's the kinda info I'm looking for. So can I buy them individually or do I need to buy a jet kit? If individually, where can I get them. Thanks a lot guys.
 

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some aftermarket books sell the OEM jets.....jet kits are not the way to go really....Parts Unlimited? Dennis Kirk?........not sure what you have down there for books?

J
 

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Discussion Starter #17
some aftermarket books sell the OEM jets.....jet kits are not the way to go really....Parts Unlimited? Dennis Kirk?........not sure what you have down there for books?

J

Awesome, we have both. Now I just have to decide if I wanna fork out the money for the wideband commander. It's so expensive, but datalogging would make it so much easier. I'm gonna try to find some shit to sell. It would make me feel a lot better about throwing out 400+ for it haha.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So is there any reason not to weld the o2 sensor to the exhaust directly after the header rather than to the header itself? If I could just pull the motowerkz pipe off and weld it to that then it would save me a LOT of work lol.
 

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Jetting isn't exact enough to require wideband on each cylinder... Tuning each cylinder is going to get you marginal gains, if any. When I say marginal, I mean less than a tenth of a horsepower. Just tune the bike so that the inner cylinders are one step larger than the outer cylinders (or vice-versa, I can't remember which it is off-hand).
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Jetting isn't exact enough to require wideband on each cylinder... Tuning each cylinder is going to get you marginal gains, if any. When I say marginal, I mean less than a tenth of a horsepower. Just tune the bike so that the inner cylinders are one step larger than the outer cylinders (or vice-versa, I can't remember which it is off-hand).

Yes, I've already decided on this. I'm asking if there's any reason not to locate the o2 sensor on the pipe AFTER the headers as opposed to on the collector of the headers...
 
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