EFI conversion, anyone?

whitehendrix · Dec 27, 2010

http://www.kawiforums.com/two-wheel...com/two-wheeled-discussion/168669-efi-conversion-feeler-thread.html#post2287655

it SHOULD be universal and work on any model year if i can engineer it right and if i'm lucky. same model should also work on any model year 500r with th eexception of the difference in throttle bodies and injector sizing..

( tho i may be able to run oversized injectors on the 250 and simply cut pulse width down)

click link provided for more details

this is just here because you 250 cats have your own little world here you rarely venture out of. lol
thanks!

biketoczzr · Dec 27, 2010

I am going to build a FI system for next years race bike.

MicroSquirt® Introduction

Micro Squirt has all the parts. The difficult thing is getting the computer to read the crank pick up . 1986 Ninja 250 has a dual pick up that wont work for anything,. The stock pick up dose not have the proper signal for some computers.

Using a big injector with a small pulse with is not as good as using a small injector at 85% but you gota go with what you can.

to me adjust-ability is a key factor when building this . I need control of the fuel injection the ignition system and Data logging.
This has it all. It will probably cost more than two new 250 ninjas but that is racing.HAHA

whitehendrix · Dec 27, 2010

ya. i have alot of little things to work out, but it will be perfect when i am done.. and chances are if i have a 250/500 kit, it will NEED to have specific parts, injectors etc for the thing to run right.. well see. i may need a donor bike or something. lol

randomwalk101 · Dec 28, 2010

Prob be cheaper to buy parts off a wrecked FI bike from Europe and install it LOL ...

slev · Dec 30, 2010

I have yet to see anything like this for sale (nor do I know the exact list of parts that would need to be swapped out), especially stateside... so it may be a bit harder than it sounds.

But seriously, if there's a giant landfill in Europe somewhere full of 08+ 250 engines, let me know!

250 minus a carburetor would be great

Ninjabadger4 · Dec 28, 2010

biketoczzr · Dec 28, 2010

I am thinking of using a throttl body from a 1000 or 1200. Using one butterfly will make it simple to adjust. Yes lots to fabricate. The factory stuff will also be VERY useful.

hickman71 · Dec 30, 2010

Greg has an 'F' model 250 fuel injected, using a MicroSquirt system:

Ninja250 Riders Club :: View topic - UPDATE: Fuel Injected 2005 EX-250, riding and tuning....

chuckbear · Dec 30, 2010

I would think the best place to look is something like Ebay UK. I'd think there'd be used parts all over the place same as there is for the carbed bikes here...

slev · Dec 30, 2010

You and your common sense, can once again, GTFO!

Just kidding man

Honestly, I have never looked into it very hard, but even if it was like 500 bucks to ship stuff over, it may be worth it to some people (like a friend of mine, for example).

chuckbear · Dec 30, 2010

Yea I don't know what parts would run. I've actually ordered something from the UK before (though I can't remember wtf it is now) where I couldn't find it anywhere else and, as long as you're not in a rush, shipping and all wasn't too expensive. :dunno:

whitehendrix · Jan 1, 2011

i don't feel like outsourcing shit from another country. unless i can get it for cheap. but i doubt the supply will match the demand if i were to start 250 retrofit kits. everyone on here would probably want one. and i am not sure everyone on here would wanna pay.. wtf ever i would have to charge to justify the import and assembly of the kit and parts.

the microsquirt kit is $400. plus whatever parts n shit are needed. so.. i think i could make a reasonable efi kit for maybe 800 or less. if anyone has a price or somethin on the 250 stock efi system, by all means pass the info along and i'll see what i can do

slev · Jan 1, 2011

IMO, anything around a grand would be more than fair :dunno:. There's a lot of parts and work involved... people lowballing and not even realizing the straight cost of what they want would be a pain in the ass.

whitehendrix · Jan 1, 2011

thats kinda what i thought too. the more i read up on it, the more theres not THAT much of a profit margin in it.. i'd have to spend a pretty good amount of money in order to even make a kit. let alone the time machining and welding custom TBs for each and every bike i sell a kit for.
chances are i'd spend about 600-700 for each kit to assemble and piece together, plus machine, weld and program time. leaves about 6 hours of labor at $50 an hour actually paid for, when i can estimate just the prototyping alone will be twice that. let alone maching.. welding, programming, tuning and fine tuning.. the gas for the welder, consumables, mill tooling, a $400 wideband O2 sensor. eventually a dyno.. this would take a long time to actually make profitable.. but i am willing to do it anyway

biketoczzr · Jan 1, 2011

The only problem I see in trying to building a retro fit kit is when Kawasaki brings FI to the states. And I feel they will .Everyone is crying for it and Honda came out with a FI 250 for 2011. No one will want to retro fit a carb bike.

SHILOH · Jan 2, 2011

Don't see how Kawasaki cannot at some point bring EFI to the US. They didn't spend all the man hours upgrading the 250 for a short production life of just a few years. Guessing when, why not guess, say 2013 at the latest. It's only a guess, but it will happen at some point in time.

The success Honda has with the new 250 could be a big factor in the when.

whitehendrix · Jan 2, 2011

well, it will be simple enough.. and not every carbed 250 owner is gonna run out and buy an efi bike.. so.. there should be some sorta demand. if not. fuck it. theres at least 4 other brands and probably 10-15 different bikes i could lay a design out for that will sell. older 600s, the zzr, the 7 and 9r, anything off-road, and thats just kawi. let alone the F4,3,2,1 the cruisers, suzuki, yamahas R6 and R1 and their cruisers and off-road stuff.

theres outlets i will find.
i need money. i want a dyno and 4 gas analyzer. and a mill and lathe. and a ferarri

whitehendrix · Jan 3, 2011

we're all going to hell in 2012 tho. so i don't see 2013 happening.. but who knows.

SHILOH · Jan 3, 2011

whitehendrix said:
we're all going to hell in 2012 tho. so i don't see 2013 happening.. but who knows.

That's right, forgot the 2012 is the last year. Maybe they Kawasaki will introduce the 2013 model early in 2012. Probably not, oh well.

whitehendrix · Jan 4, 2011

well, we can hope. until then i will attempt to bring efi to the masses for a reasonable price and a reacharound.

whitehendrix · Jan 6, 2011

i think there'd be enough demand country-wide to make it justifiable to produce and sell kits. i could honestly say i feel i could sell several hundred of em with no issues if they were simple and effective and at a reasonable price.

slev · Jan 6, 2011

Hopefully it works for ya jimminy. Like I said, if I had the cash to spare, I'd pick up a kit for my bike in lieu of buying a new one... :dunno:

I don't think I'm in the minority with that, either.

williamr · Jan 6, 2011

Personally I don't think that the EFI bikes have any real advantage over carb'd ones. Certainly not enough to want to spend serious money on a conversion of dubious real value.

This conversion is really for the hobbyist who gets more out of doing the job than riding the bike afterwards.

Whitehendrix - I'd do some proper market research before committing a lot of cash and time to this project. Fine to do it for your own satisfaction, but I'm not so sure as a business oportunity.

Rob

whitehendrix · Jan 7, 2011

i don't think i'd rely on this as a sole source of income.. but i do think theres benefits on starting and reliability issues that outweigh the carb setup.

i have been doing research.. would never delve into something without knowing some details!
i appreciate your input tho rob. thanks

lewisillusions said:
Ok so:

At a pinch you need:
1. Fuel Pump (requiring fuel tank swap as it's bolted to it)
2. New Fuel lines (from pump to fuel rail on injector body)
3. New throttle body (with injectors and fuel rail)
4. New bike wiring loom.
5. New ECU.
7. New Dash (for FI light)
8. New Left Control Assy (for removal of choke switch/cable)
9. Possibly a new Crank Angle Sensor, not sure if they are same (probably are)
10. New headers (for o2 sensor)
11. Sundry other crap associated with it all (brackets, ties, etc).

I'm sure one could cut corners and use microsquirt or a similar setup, but that is going to be far from standard and a pain in the arse to tune (perhaps you're less lazy than I am).

I've recently done a rebuild of a Aus spec 2008 250r bike which was a repairable write-off by swapping parts from auction bought written-off 2009 250r imported FI bike (frame + bottom of engine + fairings + wheels trashed= write off) and it works perfectly. If you wanted to do it from new parts, this would _suck_ in terms of cost. If you can find a scrapped FI import, this is your best bet.

What was the end result of all the effort? Satisfaction.

Any daily riding improvement? No need to care about the choke and the bottom end of the throttle doesn't hesitate even if you go from 0 to WOT.

What did I learn from the experience? The money could have been invested in a 600cc FI bike. It was fun though!

/2c

well. i don't exactly consider it "cutting corners" with a microsquirt system.. and a new exhaust isn't needed.. simply an o2 bung to be welded in.. and thats if it even needs it.

as i said i'd offer a kit of sorts. ya the buyer assumes liability and may have to do a few things, but if i decide to do this it will be as close to turn-key as you can get/ already tuned and programmed. already ready already, basically.

again. .this is a feeler. i could toss something together for less than $1000 i am sure. can't get a new EFI 600 for that

lewisillusions · Jan 6, 2011

Ok so:

At a pinch you need:
1. Fuel Pump (requiring fuel tank swap as it's bolted to it)
2. New Fuel lines (from pump to fuel rail on injector body)
3. New throttle body (with injectors and fuel rail)
4. New bike wiring loom.
5. New ECU.
7. New Dash (for FI light)
8. New Left Control Assy (for removal of choke switch/cable)
9. Possibly a new Crank Angle Sensor, not sure if they are same (probably are)
10. New headers (for o2 sensor)
11. Sundry other crap associated with it all (brackets, ties, etc).

I'm sure one could cut corners and use microsquirt or a similar setup, but that is going to be far from standard and a pain in the arse to tune (perhaps you're less lazy than I am).

I've recently done a rebuild of a Aus spec 2008 250r bike which was a repairable write-off by swapping parts from auction bought written-off 2009 250r imported FI bike (frame + bottom of engine + fairings + wheels trashed= write off) and it works perfectly. If you wanted to do it from new parts, this would _suck_ in terms of cost. If you can find a scrapped FI import, this is your best bet.

What was the end result of all the effort? Satisfaction.

Any daily riding improvement? No need to care about the choke and the bottom end of the throttle doesn't hesitate even if you go from 0 to WOT.

What did I learn from the experience? The money could have been invested in a 600cc FI bike. It was fun though!

/2c

EFI conversion, anyone?

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities