This is my friend Calamari Chris' website and it has info on adjusting valves...

http://www.chrisandlisachan.com/w650/valve3.htm

Check out the form that you can download to write down your information on.

 

i know all the information on Chris's page, I juts want to know if it's normal for a Kawasaki with 8000 miles on it to have tight clearances already? Given the fact that Kawasaki has a decent size clearance range, why would they ship bikes on the tight side?

I'm having a buddy stop over with another set of gauges to help me verify...

but any infromation or past experiences would help...

 

BWAHAHA! Your Photoshop skills SUCK man! Sorry, couldn't resist your invitation.
Here's a form I use whenever checking the clearances:

It's a pretty tight squeeze in there and you usually have to really bend the crap out of your feeler-gauge blades to get a correct reading, especially on those far right valves that are right next door to cam sprockets/chain.
Just bend the crap out of those blades. Better to buy a new feeler gauge (~$10) every 6000 miles than to get a bum-reading and possibly risk damage to your engine.
The blades should slide in without binding and you want to shoot for mid-to loose end of the spectrum. It's an old racing trick to adjust your valves on the tight side, because it will give you an extra fraction of a degree of lift (and therefore a fraction of a horse on top), but it makes your bike run like doo-doo at lower rpm. So looser is better for all but race situations.
But don't make the same mistake I made: in my zeal for looseness and my lack of stepped (.16, .17, .18, .19, etc.) feeler gauges, I set my wife's clearances to the point where the .20 blade would barely squeeze into the gap. Made a horrible ticking noise and I had to open the whole dang thing up again.
So looser is better, but if a certain shim might make it too loose, might be better to go the next size thicker and shoot for the middle of the spectrum.
-Calamari Chris in Carlsbad, CA
P.S. Hi Captain Ihab.

 

Your supposed to have the bike running at 15,500 rpms while you measure those valve clearances. Wear goggles, lots of oil going everywhere. Watch those fingers to. I'm sorry. Couldn't resist. Tight clearances make for quieter valves. Not louder. It's shim time. Find a friend that's been through this before. I saw a lot of really good motors wasted by home mechanics saving a few bucks on doing their own valve jobs. If you have ANY doubts, haul it to the dealer. I've even seen the dealers screw this up.

 

I would double check them again and make the feeler gauge is going inat the right angle. It is possible that they are all to tight. On mine I only had 2 valves that were to tight but I know every bike is differnt.

 

Ok, I'm confused. Do 02 6R's even have a 15.5 redline? I have never heard of ANY motor needing to have the valve gap measured with the engine running. It's not possible. You won't be able to feel the resistance in the feeler gauge. You measure with the engine cold and the engine hot. The only time you can measure with the engine running is on a screw down adjuster, and that's just to eliminate rocker noise, not adjust the gap. As far as tight or loose valves, it's better to have them a little loose than a little tight. If you run'em tight, you take the chance of a valve staying open and burning it out. Also you'll have run problems if valves stay open.You just need to get them as close as posible without being tight. That's all you can do with a shim setup. That's why you have to adjust them so often.

 

Originally posted by roncya
Ok, I'm confused. Do 02 6R's even have a 15.5 redline? I have never heard of ANY motor needing to have the valve gap measured with the engine running. It's not possible.

Dude, he was just joking.

 

Damn Andy your either ridin the shit out that bike or its running a
little lean on top. Running lean will cause high egt temp, which can
shrink valves. The intake doesn't shrink cause it stays cool from
fresh air/fuel mix

 

Originally posted by Andy_7676
Ok, so I took off work today to check the vavles on my 02 zx-6r with 8000 miles. Valves check was alittle overdue.

Anyhow literally all but 6 valves seem too tight. I'm pretty sure I'm checking them right. and the 6 vavles that aren't too tight are on the tight side of tolerance.

How tight should the feeler guage feel. Should it slight in or should there be a good bit of resistance?

Andy, the best way to check valves is to first slide a feeler gauge that is one size below the minimum gap setting in, and see if it will go between the cam lobe and the valve bucket. This will tell you if the valve is overly tight, right off the bat.

Then you keep increasing the size of the feeler gauges until you can not insert one. Go back to the last feeler gauge that you could insert, and see how hard it is to insert between the lobe/bucket.

You should beable to slip it in with a bit of pressure, and slide it back and forth between the lobe and bucket, but feel a bit of resistance as you do it. There should be pressure, but you should not have to really push on the feeler to move it around.

The easiest clue is to just keep going up in sizes uuntil you get the first one that won't go in, and mark the last feeler gauge that went in as the gap.

As for the exhaust valve question, depends on the motor. On the Ninja 250, the exhaust valves tend to get tighter sooner than the intake valves. My friend and I just did the valves on his FZR600, and all but 1 of his intakes were just at, or slightly below the minimum setting, while all the exhausts were inside the minimum with a bit of room.

What I would recommend you do with all your valves would be to go 1 shim size smaller on all your exhausts, and 2 sizes smaller on all your inlets, with the exception of that one you have marked at .15; that one I would only go down 1 shim size.

That should set all the clearances to just around the loose end of the spectrum. Make sure you chart all the shim sizes that are on the bike currently just the same way you charted all the valve clearances. This way, as you calculate what size shim you need to install in its place, you can easily look to see if you already have the shim size you need.

The way I did it for my friend's FZR was to mark down all the clearances for each valve just the way you did. Then directly underneath each valve clearance, I wrote the shim size number that was in that valve. Then under the installed shim, I wrote the number of the shim size I want to replace it with.

I then totalled up the nunmber of shims that are on the bike according to shim size. With the FZR600, I had 1 170, 3 172, 1 175, 3 176, 1 178, 1 181, 1 184, 1 185, 1 186, 1 189, and 1 191 size shims. According to the Yamaha chart, I needed to go down 5 numerical sizes (say a 170 to a 165) to bring the clearances back into spec. After doing a bit of calculating, I determined that I can reuse all the shims I have except for the 186, 189, 191 and 1 of the 176's. All I need to purchase for his bike are 4 165's, and the bike is back in spec.

There yah go.
BC.

 

ok ok...had a friend come over with another set of gauges and got about the same results. Actaully a few of my exuast valves were tighter than I thought. Apparently there should only be alittle friction when moving the feeler around. He basically did exactly what Bladecutter mentioned above...

He's checked and done valves on his VFR and Goldwing so I'm pretty confident that the readings are good.

Anyone know a good place to order shims online? Ron Ayers? What's the cost poor shim?

I guess my next course of action is to take the cams out and measure the shims in the bike now and order the shims I need. (i.e move shims from one valve to another?)...I'm waiting for my buddy to help since I'm leary about removing the cams, lifters, messing with the CCT etc...


I don't think I run my bike too hard except for a few very low speed close track events, and it shouldn't be too lean since the bike is completely stock. Anyone think it is strange that I have so many valves on the tight side? Anyone else have this issue. I always hear people only have 1 maybe 2 tight valves, but not as many as I got.


Anyone know what the average dealer charge to shim the valves incase I chicken out. Just getting to the valves was pretty scary for me.

Also I removed the carbs, my friend said that I should sync them becasue when you remove them you can accidently mess them up alittle...is this true, should to sync my carbs now too?



edit:called the dealer an the stated it would cost alittle over 300.00 just for labor ;(

looks like I'll be doing this myself...

I found this thread which was very helpful...wish I would have read it, it would have saved me a mess with my coolant

http://kawiforums.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3739

 

For shims, you can either get your own starter library (about 60 shims) from K&L, which run about $240. If you can't find these online, your friendly-neighborhood parts guy should be able to hook you up.
Or if you've got a good relationship with your dealership/bought the bike there, get on a first-name basis with your parts guy. Every dealership has a thorough shim-library (even with the rare gems of half-sized shims coming in .025mm increments!) If you're cool with your parts guy (and buy stuff from them on a regular basis), he'll probably let you swap the unwanted shims you have for the ones you need from his mechanic's shim library. Some dealerships have a policy of charging a shim-swap fee (~10-$15), so don't get mad if they do this.
The third option is less desireable. You can order the necessary shims outright (these are also listed on the cylinder-head portion of buykawasaki.com's parts diagram). This will mean the usual 4-day wait, about 5-$7 per shim, and chances are you won't have any use for the shim you're taking out of there.
Do not sand, grind or modify the existing shims. These are made of white-steel with a very hard shell, but butter underneath. Once you've sanded through that brittle shell, it's like the reese's peanut butter cup inside and won't stand up to the engine's pounding away on it.
Good luck. Let us know which way you go with.
-CCinC
P.S. All three of my Kawasaki's (6R, 9R, W650) use the same shims, so I bought the K&L library, but still have to swap shims with my favorite parts guy. Last time, it turned out he needed the shims I was looking to get rid of and vice-versa; a very symbiotic relationship.

 

msut be nice to have dealers you trust and like...I haven't had any good experinces with local dealers so I try and keep them out of the loop as much as possible.


most likely I will order only the shims I need...anyone got a part number for a shim so I can look up some prices online? You know to give me an idea how much money I'm looking at?

 

It is indeed. My parts guy (Scott Carey) is not your usual facially-pierced dirt-biking teenager who's working there only long enough to get an employee discount on a pipe and shock for his motocrosser. He's been there for 17 years and is the primary reason I have 3 K-bikes in the garage right now. When you find a good one, put their license-plate frame on your bike and sing their name to the hills. (http://www.pacificms.com) </spam>
This is pasted from buykawasaki.com.
92180-1014 SHIM,T=2.50
92180-1016 SHIM,T=2.55
92180-1018 SHIM,T=2.60
92180-1020 SHIM,T=2.65
92180-1022 SHIM,T=2.70
92180-1024 SHIM,T=2.75
92180-1026 SHIM,T=2.80
92180-1028 SHIM,T=2.85
92180-1030 SHIM,T=2.90
92180-1032 SHIM,T=2.95
92180-1034 SHIM,T=3.00
92180-1036 SHIM,T=3.05
92180-1038 SHIM,T=3.10
92180-1040 SHIM,T=3.15
92180-1042 SHIM,T=3.20
92180-1044 SHIM,T=3.25
92180-1046 SHIM,T=3.30
92180-1048 SHIM,T=3.35
92180-1050 SHIM,T=3.40
92180-1052 SHIM,T=3.45
92180-1054 SHIM,T=3.50

Buykawasaki's parts diagrams are another reason the last 4 bikes I've bought have been Kawis. If you're going to be doing your own wrenching, check it out: http://www.buykawasaki.com/ and navigate to Vehicle Information and to Parts-Diagrams.
Good luck.
-CCinC

 

I keep forgetting about their parts diagram...it's way ahead of the other bike manufacturers....

thanks man...

 

You used to be able to get Honda parts diagrams on www.partsfish.com, but Honda sent their lawyers in and made them change their part numbering. That and my Superhawk experience ( http://www.chrisandlisachan.com/superhawk.htm ) have made a Honda-hater out of me for life. I'll ride a camel to work before I'll ride another Honda.
Let us know how it goes.
-CCinC

 

I'll keep everyone posted... Thanks guys for all your help!

 

The question was never answered about re-synch'ing the carbs after removal.

 

What question was that?
Yes, you should resynch the carbs after adjusting the valves, because the changing the clearances (and therefore the amount of valve-lift) will alter the flow-rate. I also like to change the oil and filter after adjusting the valves--no matter how clean you kept everything, some dust, water-vapor and possible even dirt have gotten into your exposed engine.
This is only my own half-formed hypothesis, but I like to take a long, fast freeway ride the day before a valve adjustment. I believe that a freeway ride will scrub a little carbon build-up off the valves and give you a more accurate reading on your clearance. If you've only been doing quick errands on your bike and there is carbon on your valves, it could conceivably give you an incorrect tight reading on the clearance. I may be completely wrong about this, but it's fun going fast on the freeway and it can't hurt anything to do it the day before. Challenges to this hypothesis?
-CCinC

 

Originally posted by Calamari Chris
What question was that?
Yes, you should resynch the carbs after adjusting the valves, because the changing the clearances (and therefore the amount of valve-lift) will alter the flow-rate. I also like to change the oil and filter after adjusting the valves--no matter how clean you kept everything, some dust, water-vapor and possible even dirt have gotten into your exposed engine.
This is only my own half-formed hypothesis, but I like to take a long, fast freeway ride the day before a valve adjustment. I believe that a freeway ride will scrub a little carbon build-up off the valves and give you a more accurate reading on your clearance. If you've only been doing quick errands on your bike and there is carbon on your valves, it could conceivably give you an incorrect tight reading on the clearance. I may be completely wrong about this, but it's fun going fast on the freeway and it can't hurt anything to do it the day before. Challenges to this hypothesis?
-CCinC

How about a fuel system cleaner that Chevron sells for about $10 a bottle? They're supposed to clean up the valves, fuel-injector/carbs, and uh... everything else, like the spark plugs and stuff. I think it's some sort of solvent along with some other detergents that they put in there.

 

I don't trust car-stuff for bikes and anyway it's not as much fun as riding fast on the freeway.
-CCinC

 

I remeebr anytime my dad would speed, he would look at me and say "son, I'm burning the carbon off the engine"...

I'm thinking to myself..."riiiiight dad..."

 

My Pa used to say, "I didn't go through that red light, I went...under it."
(Freaking Dads, no wonder we're a bunch of vehicular-delinquents.)

-CCinC

 

So, how fast should I be going to burn the carbon off? There's this lonesome strip of road I ride every time I go out, maybe about a mile long, and I will often hit a hundred on it.

 

It's not really how-fast, it's more how-long. I like to start with a full tank and run it non-stop at 65+, down to almost to the point when you have to put it on reserve. In addition to (hopefully) burning some of that crud off the valves, it also makes the tank lighter for when you pull it off. I live near a stretch of relatively-scenic interstate that runs along the beaches of Camp Pendleton. No off- or on-ramps on the military base so the traffic is regularly travelling at 85+ in relative safety.
100 is a terrible speed to be caught at, and there really aren't any "safe" places to speed in your neck of the woods, Marc. Save it for when you can ride out in the Anza Borrego Desert with me this spring. I caught major air (~2 feet) while doing 130 on my Superhawk out there. Wasn't intentional, just came to an unexpected little hill. But it's still safer out there because there are few-to-zero places for a Lion to set up an ambush for us gazelles. Got my VTR up to 165 (probably closer to 150--VTR's speedo likes to exxaggerate a little) out there and my W650 up to 115.
-CCinC

 

I work at a dealer and am sorry you haven't found a good one yet. Anyhow, the valves will get tight as time goes on. The valve seat wears and the valve it self does too which causes the valve to sit farther into the head. tighter clearance. you do want to go for the mid range with your clearance. too tight causes cam wear, too lose is noisy. but stay on the loser side if you have no shims in 1/2 sizes. by the way thanks for the valve clearance sheet. that will come in handy. good luck and keep tryin.